Overbet push with KK

[betgo]

$15 rebuy on Paradise 30 minutes past rebuy period, ante. Button open pushes for 15xBB with KK. BB calls with 88. What do you think of either player's play?

[Dave D]

Not nearly enough information man, cmon.

What's BB's stack, how have both been playing, how many left till money etc.

BB probably thought Button was trying to steal. Button probably thought that's what I want BB to think. Seems -EV most of the time, but I guess when there's only two actors left anyway you probably wont get much action and might as well try.

And I wouldn't call unless I had like 8 BBs or less.

[danger_mouse]

Its rarely a good idea to push 15BB with such a huge hand. However, there are times when the table tone makes it a decent idea. In rebuy tournaments some players have a hard time letting go of the gambling attitude they displayed earlier in the tourney, so you're more likely to get called (by dominated hands like 88 no less).

[mlagoo]

enh about the push, like the call (rebuy).

the push probably "reads" as your average rebuy push, and could include a really wide range (like, a really really wide range) of cards. which means you may well (and in this case did) get called by inferior cards.

the call... he probably figures he's a little better than a coinflip against the pushers range, and, its a rebuy.

it's after the rebuy period, the push was bad because he can't get reraised if the guy thinks he's bluffing with a steal (unless he's pushed before), and the call was bad because he's easily dominated (unless he's pushed before with mediocre to bad hands)

[illegit]

[ QUOTE ]
enh about the push, like the call (rebuy).

the push probably "reads" as your average rebuy push, and could include a really wide range (like, a really really wide range) of cards. which means you may well (and in this case did) get called by inferior cards.

the call... he probably figures he's a little better than a coinflip against the pushers range, and, its a rebuy.

[/ QUOTE ]
But the rebuy period is over, thus the call is awful.

The push i don't like with a relatively decent stack size. I'd standard raise.

[betgo]

I think the call is good. A lot of people would push for 15xBB from the button with ante with a small pair. In fact, that is probably a good play. The push could also be a high card hand KQ, AJ or better. Most people would not push with a pair QQ or higher here.

[mlagoo]

oh i completely missed the fact that the rebuy period was over.


i hate both plays.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the call is good. A lot of people would push for 15xBB from the button with ante with a small pair. In fact, that is probably a good play. The push could also be a high card hand KQ, AJ or better. Most people would not push with a pair QQ or higher here.

[/ QUOTE ]

calling an allin when you figure yourself to be a coinflip is pretty terrible unless you are very shortstacked, which i didnt understand to be the case. its a very bad call.

[shish]

i don't like either play

[SoBeDude]

you need a read on the players.

I sometimes like making a much bigger than normal bet with a big pair in EP, as it is the last hand people will usually put me on.

Most players make a big overbet with a small pair, something like 44-77 that people are afraid of, so they play them poorly. I can't remember how many times (live) I've seen too big a bet preflop, then I say out loud to the raiser "Trying to protect those sevens eh?" and after all fold, they show me some weak pair.

So given this, sometimes overraising with a big pair can make people play back at you with dominated hands...

but...

...It has to be done at the right time, at the right table. If the table is overly tight, or if there aren't players who are going to read your too-big raise as weak, then it's a bad play and lowers the value of your hand.

-Scott

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the call is good. A lot of people would push for 15xBB from the button with ante with a small pair. In fact, that is probably a good play. The push could also be a high card hand KQ, AJ or better. Most people would not push with a pair QQ or higher here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read my reply. doesn't this make the big bet with KK a good bet in the right conditions?

-Scott