How long will this website remain free ?

[Cyrus]

twoplustwo.com is apparently getting a phaenomenal amount of hits every day and its popularity keeps rising. It is a matter of time IMO before the webmasters are overwhelmed, at which case they will either have to

(a) establish as firm a moderation policy as possible -- and not so much in the sense of forbidding "bad language" but of discouraging most non-poker talk,

or

(b) keeping things as they are except for converting most of the poker-related pages to subscrition-only pages, i.e. leaving free the líkes of Politics, OOT, etc.

I say the 2+2 folks will eventually go the latter route. Possibly within the year. They do not seem to know how to squeeze all the benefit out of windfall success.

--Cyrus

[benfranklin]

This web site is a big advertisement for 2+2 books and for Conjelco, which runs the site and which sells the book that you can order here. The more people who come here, the more 2+2 books that are sold, the more books that Conjelco sells, and the more advertising revenue that comes in from poker sites and affiliates. It costs money to advertise, and the cost here is basically bandwidth and administration.

Obviously, no one would pay to subscribe to the poker strategy forums as they now exist, because of the very low signal to noise ratio. The noise level would have to be close to zero before I would even think of paying for a forum, and that is highly unlikely. Bringing them up to that value level would be prohibitively expensive. I would think that it would require full-time editors with good-to-expert poker knowledge. Even valuable contributors would balk at being charged for something that is now free, and would likely migrate en mass to a new home. I think that the new system of moderators is beginning to have a positive impact, and is the correct compromise between chaos and subscription.

I think that the present, improving product is the optimal use of a discussion forum. The way to obtain added value is to provide added benefits, beyond this free service, and to charge for those services (advance access to the magazine articles, private newsletter, etc.).

[slavic]

This website is not free.

1) See all the adds

2) read the T's & c's
[ QUOTE ]

You agree that upon posting any material within a forum on the 2+2 website you grant 2+2 and its successors and assigns, a non-exclusive worldwide, royalty free, perpetual, non-revocable license under your copyrights or other intellectual property rights, if any, in such material to distribute, display, and reproduce such material to other readers of that forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
This website is not free.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry but it is. A free site is one which you can access freely, without paying any kind of fee for the privilege. Such a site is twoplustwo.com -- still.

There are sites which do not require a fee but a registration, eg the NYT site. They, too, are considered free sites.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
This web site is a big advertisement for 2+2 books and for Conjelco, which runs the site and which sells the book that you can order here. The more people who come here, the more 2+2 books that are sold, the more books that Conjelco sells, and the more advertising revenue that comes in from poker sites and affiliates.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a valid claim but I was referring specifically to the number of participants here. It's one thing to have a huge number of hits on your website (which is a matter of hosting servers to carry the load), whereby indeed, as you say, the hits support the advertisement revenue and the book selling, and it's quite another thing when there is a myriad of active participants in message boards!

This website is having a tremendous, unanticipated success with the number of active participants! All marketers know that an active participant is more hooked than a browser (causing hits). But, like I said, so far I see no indication whatsoever of the webmasters here taking advantage of windfall success.

But I don't have stock in 2+2 so it is no big deal to me, aside from commenting on something obvious.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]

This website is having a tremendous, unanticipated success with the number of active participants!

[/ QUOTE ]

I fortgot to mention that the demographics here are a marketer's wet dream, as well.

[Punker]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously, no one would pay to subscribe to the poker strategy forums as they now exist

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true.

[LargeCents]

[ QUOTE ]
This website is not free.

1) See all the adds

2) read the T's & c's
[ QUOTE ]

You agree that upon posting any material within a forum on the 2+2 website you grant 2+2 and its successors and assigns, a non-exclusive worldwide, royalty free, perpetual, non-revocable license under your copyrights or other intellectual property rights, if any, in such material to distribute, display, and reproduce such material to other readers of that forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

NO WAY! You mean Sklansky owns the rights to my OOT rants about [CENSORED] and [CENSORED]?! NOOOOOO!

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer sells his stories to J.Peterman.
"KRAMER: Mr. Peterson, you gotta sell me my stories back!

PETERMAN:I don't need your useless drivel with Ms. Beniz as my writer, take back your worthless stories you vagabond!

KRAMER: Yippee-ki-yay!!"

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Cyrus:

We intend, for now, to keep everything as is. Our site is advertiser supported and even though we are overwhelmed, everything is being handled fairly well.

best wishes,
mason

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Cyrus:

Why didn't we think of charging money for this [censored]?

best wishes,
mason

[/ QUOTE ]
fyp

[slavic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This website is not free.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry but it is. A free site is one which you can access freely, without paying any kind of fee for the privilege. Such a site is twoplustwo.com -- still.

There are sites which do not require a fee but a registration, eg the NYT site. They, too, are considered free sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know I just hate this line of thought. Advertiser sponsored sites aren't free. Just ask the people who run them, or the people who pay for them. As always there has to be an economic decision for a person to come, an advertiser ot pay and a supplier to provide the media, to say this is free is simply wrong. The fact that you do not feel that you have to "pay" anything is irrelevant.

[Zygote]

I think charging would actually be a good idea. That would really weed out multiple account BS and most of the spammers. This would leave the more serious and constructive posters.

You should charge a one time fee for a lifetime subscribtion and, also, you wouldn't have to stop the ads. A subscribtion should include access to the 2+2 magazine and the golden strategy forums.

[dsm]

[ QUOTE ]
fyp

[/ QUOTE ]

What does 'fyp' mean? First Year Program? Front Yard Pass?

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
(b) keeping things as they are except for converting most of the poker-related pages to subscrition-only pages, i.e. leaving free the líkes of Politics, OOT, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

I would pay for politics but they aint getting a dime for the 'Small stakes weakness tightness' forum.

Mack

[fluorescenthippo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This website is not free.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry but it is. A free site is one which you can access freely, without paying any kind of fee for the privilege. Such a site is twoplustwo.com -- still.

There are sites which do not require a fee but a registration, eg the NYT site. They, too, are considered free sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know I just hate this line of thought. Advertiser sponsored sites aren't free. Just ask the people who run them, or the people who pay for them. As always there has to be an economic decision for a person to come, an advertiser ot pay and a supplier to provide the media, to say this is free is simply wrong. The fact that you do not feel that you have to "pay" anything is irrelevant.

[/ QUOTE ]

With this line of thinking there are no free websites. nothing is free. if someone walks up to me and gives me 20 dollars its not free because that person PAID me 20 dollars. just because other people pay for something doesnt mean its not free to other people.

i just realized that sunlight is probably free

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]


i just realized that sunlight is probably free

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. If you are indoors, you have to pay for a window to enjoy sunlight.

Outdoors, you will need to pay for a hat, sunglasses, and sunscreen to avoid cancer. Cancer isn't free either, so it's best to avoid it.

[razor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fyp

[/ QUOTE ]

Help, I'm a dumbo and have no clue what 'fyp' means.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed Your Post

[Matt Flynn]

Just my 2 cents I will not pay a cent to be here though I like it here.

[Turning Stone Pro]

It's just wrong that donks like Clarkmeister, J.A. Sucker, and P-Dids (or whatever his name is) have the privilege of learning from myself and other top 2+2ers without paying for it.

TSP

[MrMon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


i just realized that sunlight is probably free

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. If you are indoors, you have to pay for a window to enjoy sunlight.

Outdoors, you will need to pay for a hat, sunglasses, and sunscreen to avoid cancer. Cancer isn't free either, so it's best to avoid it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention that damn entropy bill.

[J.A.Sucker]

Would you pay mine, Dr Flynn?

[Zygote]

so this means you value the content on this site as less than one penny?

[felson]

[ QUOTE ]
so this means you value the content on this site as less than one penny?

[/ QUOTE ]

But more than zero!

[Matt Flynn]

yours i pay.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This [2+2] website is not free.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry but it is. A free site is one which you can access freely, without paying any kind of fee for the privilege. Such a site is twoplustwo.com -- still.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just hate this line of thought. Advertiser-sponsored sites aren't free. The fact that you do not feel that you have to "pay" anything is irrelevant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying that, by having an advertisement-blocking piece of software in your computer, you are literally cheating twoplustwo.com out of its rightful fee and income ?