Finding folds......

[baronzeus]

is good except in big pots with good hands on the river.

I don't think folding here is right, except in very special circumstances. Finding folds is important but this is never the place. I accidentally clicked the "fold" button instead of the call button. Villain is severely LPP

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

[newhizzle]

personally id fold the flop, but def call the river, theres no reason to fear a full house from the previous action, also id normally limp preflop, but its good to mix it up a bit

[thesharpie]

If villain is very passive we'll often get to see the river card for 1sb, and if he does bet when we hit we've alread gotten 10.5sb out of him and most likely will get a few more.

[MrEngenic]

I fold the flop and bet the turn.

Actually, I do call the flop and check the turn like you.

[thesharpie]

Bad turn bet. Either the ace hit him and he's going to check raise forcing you to fold your 4 outer, or he has a draw or a 10 that's calling anyway. I think you'll be folding your 4 outer alot on the turn against someone severely passive.

[NobodysFreak]

I'd draw the turn card for 1 SB... not everytime, but I would more often than not especially if my opponent is passive. I like checking the turn and I think villian made a mistake by allowing you to.

[xenthebrain]

yeah, a call would have bean better. I wouldn't cap though.

[Entity]

Everyone saying fold the flop needs to learn to read the board. If you've got a great read then the river fold is close; as is, you'll get 3-bet by an Ace after your turn check fairly often so I don't fold to the river 3-bet. It would be different, say, had you raised the flop and bet the turn on a steal and then been bet-3bet on the river (note: I'm not suggesting raising flop/betting turn on this hand, just saying how the hand would be different on the river if you had).

Basically a longwinded way of saying I don't like the fold.

[silkyslim]

id fold the flop.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
id fold the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Before posting this, please read the board. Try again. How many outs does hero have?

Rob

[imported_The Vibesman]

Why is everyone saying fold the flop here when we have a 2-way str8 draw? 6 outs are gold, 2 more are spades but still may be good. Am I missing something?

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I missing something?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Everyone else is. Apparently people have a hard time seeing double gutters.

[B Dids]

I think you have to call here. Any ace is likely to play the hand this way.

[JerseyTom]

Um, all these people saying "fold the flop"... you do realize that it's HU, Hero is double-gutted, and getting 8.5:1 on a call? Even if we discount our spade outs (which we have absolutely no reason to do - did I mention it's HU?), this is the easiest (well, top 5%) flop call ever.

No way I'm folding the river. You'll see mere trips often enough to call the 3-bet.


Tom

[car ramrod]

agreed. Everyone is saying fold the flop. We have a double gutshot, with odds to draw. 8 outs

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
personally id fold the flop...

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a great idea. You're closing the action, getting 8:1 to draw to your 4-outer with 2 cards to come, so your odds are right, and you have to assume that you might get a couple of extra bets out of him on the river when you hit.

Now, if he'd bet the turn, I don't think you could continue, but he didn't.

Edit: Ugh. I can't read a board this early. You have 8 outs, not 4.

[bozlax]

Ok, so I'm not grunching. I've read through the responses, and I made an intial mistake, that everyone else seems to have made as well, mis-reading the board and missing an additional 4 outs for the double gutshot. So, folding this flop is out of the question.

I also think that folding this river is a bad play, but OP indicated that, so I don't think there's anything to argue about there. I'm actually confused as to why this hand was posted as OP stated that he wasn't trying to "find a fold", here, but rather just accidentally folded.

Here's my question: anybody semi-bluff raising the flop? WITHOUT CONSIDERING THE TURN ACTION (or lack of same), don't you raise this flop with a double-gutter to the nuts as a free-card play?

[silkyslim]

omg, i missed the double belly buster!!!!!!! Doyle Brunson would challenge me to a duel!!! Sorry don't fold

[deception5]

I think even if the 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif were a 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif I would still consider calling the flop bet. Getting 8.5:1 I think you can make up the bets if you hit the straight on the turn. And if you consider the possibility that this player will give you a card, it's even closer I think.

[baronzeus]

1) Folding the flop is bad
2) Calling the river is good


Reasons stated by good posters above.

[krimson]

[ QUOTE ]
agreed. Everyone is saying fold the flop. We have a double gutshot, with odds to draw. 8 outs

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say 7 or 7.5 outs to reduce marginally for the spades, but still an easy call.

[newhizzle]

my bad didnt see the double gut draw, flop is right

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
I accidentally clicked the "fold" button instead of the call button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good excuse, nit.