Im lazy

[curtains]

I've decided that I don't want to work 4 hours a day anymore and want to cut down to 3 hours a day (24 sit and gos in 3 sets of 8).

However I do have the stipulation that if after 3 sets I'm up over 1k per set, then I keep trying to push my win until I'm either up less than 1k per set (this figure may be tweaked a little bit), up 10k or its too late/Im too tired to keep playing. Somehow I feel like it's a good idea to keep pressing when you are doing extremely well, as no matter who you are it's hard not to play a tad better when you are winning. Also if Im down over 2000 after my first two sets I just stop for the day.

Oh also I plan to play nonstop the first day of every month of which I will call "rent" day. I hope to play like 10-12 hours (ive never done this in my life really) and earn as much of the rent and all the months expenses in one day, at least from a theoretical standpoint, and then the rest of the month is a bonus /images/graemlins/smile.gif I need to live at least one day of the month like raptor anyway to be considered a real gambler I think.

Anyway not sure why Im sharing this, because obviously very few people care. Im just extremely obsessive about working a set number of hours and having a very detailed structure behind my play or else everything feels like chaos to me.

Also I feel like I love the game of poker as much as or more than everyone on this board, yet I can't find it in me to love playing for 6 hours+ per day, with the exception of being in a multi and doing well.

Raptor and others who play as much as him are champions of the world, it takes a special quality to be able to play so many hours per day. Poker isn't like a real job where you simply have to put in a full day. If you get to a certain level you can make a very healthy living working 2-3 hours a day and it's hard to find that extra motivation to play more, because ok there are a lot of other fun things to do that aren't so stressful. Also I'm not a natural gambler, I simply hate gambling for any amount of money that is remotely signifigant to me. This is a problem because basically all of the top players in the world are crazy insane gamblers or at least were at one point in their lives, or so it seems.


Anyway in all this system should increase the quality of my life for a few reasons:

1. More free time each day and the idea of playing 3 hours seems very undaunting when compared to playing 4
2. I'll play more when winning
3. I'll play less when losing

Even if I play the same when winning or losing, I definitely know that Im happier playing while Im winning than when Im losing.

The end. I want to show the worst hand I've ever played in my life as a finish to this thread but I can't find it anywhere. It's so unbeleivably bad, I must find it... I'll post a follow up with it, but it's really the worst hand ever, I basically went completely insane. That way no one can say this post had no poker content /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[curtains]

I'm going to leave this hand without comment. Enjoy my insanity from about one week ago. This literally may have been the worst hand I've ever played, but okay mainly for the river decision to MOVE ALLIN after being check raised.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t1040)
MP3 (t1025)
Hero (t990)
Button (t975)
SB (t985)
BB (t1000)
UTG (t1000)
UTG+1 (t985)
UTG+2 (t1000)
MP1 (t1000)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP2 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t57.50) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t60</font>, Hero calls t60, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (t177.50) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t60</font>, Hero calls t60.

River: (t297.50) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> MP2 checks, Hero bets t250, MP2 raises to t500, Hero moves allin, MP2 calls

Final Pot: t297.50

MP2 shows [ 7s, 9s ] a straight, six to ten.
Hero shows [ Ah, 9h ] high card ace.
MP2 wins 2010 chips from the main pot with a straight, six to ten.
Hero finished in tenth place.

[Mr_J]

I'm pretty much the same way. Except I have to put in 4hrs a day until I'm getting $100/hr. I'm happy to just average ~10k a month, and since it's tax-free it's the same as a normal person earning close to 200k before tax.

[curtains]

Well okay you are supposed to pay some taxes...

[Gramps]

[ QUOTE ]
Also I'm not a natural gambler, I simply hate gambling for any amount of money that is remotely signifigant to me. This is a problem because basically all of the top players in the world are crazy insane gamblers or at least were at one point in their lives, or so it seems.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if the "top players" exceed your accomplishments in poker, at least you probably have a much higher "life +EV expectancy" due this one characteristic. "This is a problem" is the phrase I'd use to describe the aforementioned top poker players.

Seems like the hardest "finer point" for non-poker playing (or occasional poker-playing) people to grasp just how fine a balance it is to crank out the hours without being/turning into some kind of action/gamble junky. You almost have to be the the latter (risk-loving at least) to want to play so much, but it's pretty dang hard to be that way and have the discipline/control at all times to play your best. Those with the discipline/control tend to be more risk-averse, and playing 40 hours/week (or something approaching that) is a big emotional/energy drain.

[Mr_J]

Aussie government doesn't enforce taxing the income of pro gamblers here. Winnings from gambling aren't taxable, but then you could argue that pro's aren't really 'gambling'. The tax office tried that and took a few pros (horses punters) to court 10-15 years ago, lost, and no-one has had trouble since. I guess they figure it's more trouble than what it's worth.

I still pay a goods&amp;services tax though which is 10%.

[curtains]

My fault I forgot that not everyone lives in USA.

[PokerAmateur4]

[ QUOTE ]

obviously very few people care.

[/ QUOTE ]
I care, curtains...I care.

Because I'm a 10+1 guy mostly when I sit, and go, and am also a ponderer of such life EV questions.

If you, and the other posters, could please include what games they are referring to, mostly play, and something of results(with explanations of pokerbabble words), I would appreciate it very much.

[curtains]

I 8 table the $215s right now.

[PokerAmateur4]

Also some history behind how you became HxC(hardcore). How much expeirence, how much time, years at it, intensity of study. Thanks. I know I'm asking alot, especially because some are lazy.

[curtains]

Search for a post I made on I think June 27th....that explains a bunch of stuff....something about my results for June. Also Ill be posting my monthly update in a few days.

[Mr_J]

I'm not much better off than an american earning the same pre-tax (cost of living here would almost balance out me not having to pay tax). Just better off than other aussies who have to put up with the same cost of living and lose 40% of their income to tax.

[Newt_Buggs]

wow, your ideas on this match mine almost completely. Its comforting to know that another player who isn't a gambler at heart is still able to make it at the next level (and possibly beyond in the future). It still freaks me out sometimes knowing how much money I have on the line and that a bad decision can cost several hundered dollars.

on a side note, do you think that having a rigid schedule is really a good thing? One of the things that I like about poker is that I can bend it around my schedule and "work" whenever it's convenient.

If the first day of the month is going to cover all living expenses, what do the profits from every other day go to?

[Bigwig]

Damn. You're lazier than me.

[curtains]

Profits from all days go towards building my bankroll, but okay I have to make subtractions from time to time for things like rent/going out to eat etc.

My only schedule is that I play 3 hours a day at any hour I feel convenient. If I can't do that then I've got some real problems. If something comes up that stops me from playing, whether it be a party, vacation or something more serious, I'm fine with that, it happens.

btw an example of how Im not a gambler is that I will never ever bet on any casino game. Even if the stakes are totally meaningless and it's just for fun, it feels terrible to me. I admit I have bet 5 bucks a hand on blackjack before but that was a very special occasion. It's just so stupid I cant understand why poker players bet on things where they know they have -EV. Yet it seems the majority of them routinely do so. I mean it's not like the casino games are interesting or beautiful or anything.

How many times do I have to read about STT meetings where everyone decides to go play craps or some other casino game for 3 hours. Why not go play a sit and go among yourselves or something where you can actually have some +EV or at least learn something about poker, it's like so insane to me. How can it possibly be entertaining to roll a dice and bet on what numbers come up for anyone who understands probability. But okay I have to admit that Im a huge [censored] when it comes to casino gambling.

Okay I bet on sports a little bit, but okay I have some edge there and I bet a very small % of my bankroll.

[tigerite]

Heh, I always admonish my friends who bet on blackjack, roulette, even the lottery, I tell them what's the point, what you put in doesn't match your return, but they don't listen. Yeah sure you have the chance for the "big win" but as you say it's -EV. About the only "gambling" I do is betting on say a football match when I think the odds are too high or low compared to the chance of the team winning. I rarely do that though even and when I do, it's with very low stakes.

[Sabrazack]

You took the words out of my mouth. I have never in my life bought a lottery ticket. I refuse putting ANY money on -EV games. The only occasion i can see myself doing this is buying some charity lottery tickets or something like that. I just can't get my mind around the fact that great poker players WASTE their money on -EV games when they KNOW that they are -EV.

[lacky]

curtains is also our resident chess expert, ranked top 100 in the US or world or some crazy sh*t. but I can still make a good income with a pea sized intellect, so don't let that discourage you.

Edit-course I have to work more hours....

Steve

[The Yugoslavian]

Fold preflop No0b!

Yugoslav
What will poor Drapes do on 'rent' day?? /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]

Somehow I feel like it's a good idea to keep pressing when you are doing extremely well, as no matter who you are it's hard not to play a tad better when you are winning.


2. I'll play more when winning
3. I'll play less when losing


Even if I play the same when winning or losing, I definitely know that Im happier playing while Im winning than when Im losing.



[/ QUOTE ] I very much doubt that you play better when you are winning than when you are losing. But this system that you've devised almost guarantees that you will end up losing on the last set that you play every day. [I just won a big profit--I'll play another set. I just lost -- I'll stop for the day]. I don't think that's a good idea, happiness-wise.

If you are a good poker player, why let your results dictate your play? Stopping because you lost 8 games is surely -EV, if you are a good player who can control tilt. If you can't control tilt, then it's good to try to learn how to do that.

In summary, I think your idea is terrific. But continuing when you are winning is a poor idea, I think, happiness-wise. And stopping when you're losing is -EV, I think.

If your previous results affect how you play currently, then that is an aspect of your game that you can work on profitably. But, since you are a good and experienced player, I'll bet it doesn't. It's all random variation, and any cause-and-effect you subscribe to it is just superstition.

[WebGuySteve]

These are my thoughts exactly. I actually play about 6 hours per day because I only 3 table the 215s /images/graemlins/frown.gif I may start adding more tables, but, I really enjoy watching movies, chatting, surfing, etc while I play. I have done more tables, but, I just don't like the craziness that ensues.

I am the exact same when it comes to gambling. I will NOT play casino games anymore. Blackjack used to be fun, but, now that I have an edge in poker, it's just silly. Even for 5 bucks, i don't see how people can throw their money to the casinos like that. The only thing that keeps me sane during the 12K downswings is looking in my driveway, or at my bankroll and remembering that 12K is OK to lose and that I'll get it back!

[Bluff Daddy]

more free time? you work FOUR hours a day! Do you play all 4 hours in a row or do you split them up throughout the day?

[11t]

I can see why you are doing what you are doing but two things

"I've decided that I don't want to work 4 hours a day anymore"

"2. I'll play more when winning
3. I'll play less when losing"

These are weak sauce imo.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]

Also I'm not a natural gambler, I simply hate gambling for any amount of money that is remotely signifigant to me. This is a problem because basically all of the top players in the world are crazy insane gamblers or at least were at one point in their lives, or so it seems.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a problem only for the "natural gamblers," not you.

[MegaBet]

I shudder to think how much I'd earn if I played all day, every day. I like to balance out my life though. Plus, I'm not that greedy...honest! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[1C5]

Do you work at all besides poker?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Somehow I feel like it's a good idea to keep pressing when you are doing extremely well, as no matter who you are it's hard not to play a tad better when you are winning.


2. I'll play more when winning
3. I'll play less when losing


Even if I play the same when winning or losing, I definitely know that Im happier playing while Im winning than when Im losing.



[/ QUOTE ] I very much doubt that you play better when you are winning than when you are losing. But this system that you've devised almost guarantees that you will end up losing on the last set that you play every day. [I just won a big profit--I'll play another set. I just lost -- I'll stop for the day]. I don't think that's a good idea, happiness-wise.

If you are a good poker player, why let your results dictate your play? Stopping because you lost 8 games is surely -EV, if you are a good player who can control tilt. If you can't control tilt, then it's good to try to learn how to do that.

In summary, I think your idea is terrific. But continuing when you are winning is a poor idea, I think, happiness-wise. And stopping when you're losing is -EV, I think.

If your previous results affect how you play currently, then that is an aspect of your game that you can work on profitably. But, since you are a good and experienced player, I'll bet it doesn't. It's all random variation, and any cause-and-effect you subscribe to it is just superstition.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said. I believe you get paid per game, weather you win or lose. Isn't this correct?

[citanul]

Weakling,

You can't pay the bills in Sklansky Dollars.

citanul

I doubt you are still reading this post, but something I always think about when people worry that they do not have enough "gamble" was something Young Phan said in last years WSOP. He began playing poker, was winning, but would lose it playing craps, blackjack, roulette, and he finally decided to stop. He said, "You can't be a gambler if you want to be a poker player." Now obviously you can, but the message that poker players are always thinking and making good decisions at the table, and it is probably a good thing that you are aware of your money at all times. Good luck to you, the plan sounds good. And that hand is funny.

[curtains]

jcmccc I only keep playing when Im winning a HUGE amount, meaning 1k per set. I can continue winning but if that ratio falls under 1k per set then I stop.

Also I believe that almost everyone plays very slightly better when winning and it's almost impossible to avoid this. For instance if Im up 4500 after 4 sets, and then win 400 in my final set, then I'd be up 4900 after 5 sets, which isnt quite 1k per set thus I'd stop. This doesn't mean I had a losing set. Also if Im up 2k after 3 sets, then I stop as well. It's not so common to be up 3k+ after 3 sets, but okay it does happen.

Also how come no one is trashing the ridiculous hand I posted at the top of this thread.

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]


Also how come no one is trashing the ridiculous hand I posted at the top of this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

The dude abides...

Curtains, if you keep playing like you played that hand, your plan to cut back on playing hours will be the best decision you ever made. It will save you thousands of dollars a month.

Irieguy

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
btw an example of how Im not a gambler is that I will never ever bet on any casino game. Even if the stakes are totally meaningless and it's just for fun, it feels terrible to me. I admit I have bet 5 bucks a hand on blackjack before but that was a very special occasion. It's just so stupid I cant understand why poker players bet on things where they know they have -EV. Yet it seems the majority of them routinely do so. I mean it's not like the casino games are interesting or beautiful or anything.

How many times do I have to read about STT meetings where everyone decides to go play craps or some other casino game for 3 hours. Why not go play a sit and go among yourselves or something where you can actually have some +EV or at least learn something about poker, it's like so insane to me. How can it possibly be entertaining to roll a dice and bet on what numbers come up for anyone who understands probability. But okay I have to admit that Im a huge [censored] when it comes to casino gambling.

Okay I bet on sports a little bit, but okay I have some edge there and I bet a very small % of my bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that I'm back in NY, I need to buy you a beer sometime. That's exactly what I've been saying in my head for the last couple of years.

I used to buy scratch off lottery tickets all the time as a kid - one or two a day. One time, I even managed to win a big prize (an appearance on that lotto TV show where they had C list celebs play for you and win a few grand)...except I was seventeen and a half and by the time I turned 18 we'd lost the ticket. But, you know, if I could win once I'd win again right? My parents didn't mind since they both throw a few hundred bucks into slots every time they're in AC or in the Caribbean and that added up faster than my tickets.

Then I found poker, spent 5 dollars on slots in 2 years (waiting for a buffet to open up in Vegas) and will never make a -EV bet again. I don't really get why people like casinos anymore, either.

[curtains]

There we go!! Don't worry it was honestly the absolute worst hand Ive ever played in my life, or at least until I started 8 tabling. It's a very special hand.

[valenzuela]

LOL at irie.
curtains Ive just played a hand very similar like the one u did except the guy folded /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
btw an example of how Im not a gambler is that I will never ever bet on any casino game. Even if the stakes are totally meaningless and it's just for fun, it feels terrible to me. I admit I have bet 5 bucks a hand on blackjack before but that was a very special occasion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm the same way in general. I've never bought a lottery ticket with my money or played a slot machine with more than the random quarter in my pocket. But, don't necessarily include blackjack. That can be +$EV, I think. My friends and I counted cards in college and made pretty much the $5/hr we expected.

Raptor and The Usher are different breeds and this is part of why they are among the most likely poker champions on this board, IMO.

Ok... are you serious with that reply?

[Nottom]

This sounds a lot like me except I am about 100X more lazy than you ares.

I wish I could even have your low motivation. I couldn't imagine actually putting in the number of tourneys that someone like Raptor or ZeeJustin or one of the many people who grind away at the 20-30s (or 50s-100s-200s) do in a month.

[TheUsher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
btw an example of how Im not a gambler is that I will never ever bet on any casino game. Even if the stakes are totally meaningless and it's just for fun, it feels terrible to me. I admit I have bet 5 bucks a hand on blackjack before but that was a very special occasion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm the same way in general. I've never bought a lottery ticket with my money or played a slot machine with more than the random quarter in my pocket. But, don't necessarily include blackjack. That can be +$EV, I think. My friends and I counted cards in college and made pretty much the $5/hr we expected.

Raptor and The Usher are different breeds and this is part of why they are among the most likely poker champions on this board, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif It's funny how now that I'm accumulating "real" sums of money playing SNGs I've actually become tighter with my money. I'm now obsessed with building a big bankroll to be able to put a portion of it towards investments to further ensure I'll never go broke in the future. This is actually also leading me to want to play more SNGs just to see my bankroll increase, in addition to watching my rakeback totals get huge. /images/graemlins/wink.gif The only reason I play is for rakeback baby!

Oh and to fix my problem with being lazy too, from now on I'll just try and make monthly profit goals and play whatever is needed to stick to it. I did some accounting last night on my 7/1-now profit and even after a nice 10k downswing I'm going to hit my goal this month. This was actually surprising to me considering I've played maybe 50% of my game total goal for the month. So from now on, if I need to play 500, 700, 1200 or whatever amount of SNGs to hit my goal, so be it. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[lacky]

sorry usher, but thats a really bad idea and will lead to tons of frustration. The only thing you can control directly in this game is number of hours you work. Figure out how much you need to work to make the amount you want on ave and then try to stick to putting in that many hours each week. That lets you get into a routine AND takes your focus off the short term fluctuations. As in "I've already put in half the hours i need this week and its only tuesday, we should go out" instead of "[censored], i just lost $10k, i'm never gonna hit my goal now, this blows" and playing 15 hours a day, frustrated, trying to hit a goal that was dumb to begin with!

just a little friendly advice about a path i've been down before you...

Steve

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
It's funny how now that I'm accumulating "real" sums of money playing SNGs I've actually become tighter with my money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess Raptor will have to be champion alone. You'll have to settle for doing very very well.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]

Also how come no one is trashing the ridiculous hand I posted at the top of this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want people to trash your hand, you have to be more creative than just posting it and saying that it's crap.

Let me show you how it's done.

[lacky]

your a god, an evil god

[Ryendal]

But I liked your comment.