10/20 6max: bets in weird places - KTo

[Surfbullet]

CO is a 64/0/.7 over 54 hands.
Button is a 17/11/1.7 over not that many hands...I got the impression he was quite LAG despite his stats, though.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, MP calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets...</font>

Surf

[Surfbullet]

Bump for the morning crowd.

Surf

[billyjex]

This is a situation where I C/R the flop, lead the turn.

Your line is kinda weird, just wondering what are your thoughts on it? Not calling it bad, just it is a line I never would consider.

[ISF]

I think your line is fine up to the river, but I dont get the river bet, I dont really see you being ahead of villans range of hands, and folding to a raise sucks so I would just check call. Being out of position sucks.

[GetThere1Time]

Why the river bet?

[colgin]

I probably would have C/Rd the flop and led the turn but I guess you are trying to trap MP, which doesn't seem like a bad idea.

If your read is correct that Button is a LAG then I think the river bet is fine (although query why you don't reraise the turn in that case, especially since at that point you still have your OESD to fal back on if you happen to be behind). If he is not, then I check-call.

[GetThere1Time]

but if he's a LAG doesn't he bet the river 100% of the time anyway? And doesn't getting raised here again suck?

[spydog]

I think you need to CR this flop and let MP make a bad decision if he's holding an Ace, 9 or has paired up on this flop. I really don't like your call here.

[Guy McSucker]

Is this a standard call preflop? I see we're most likely getting 5-1 but we have the worst of bad positions (front of the field with bettor on our right) and our hand pretty much sucks.

Guy.

[smacksoup]

I raise the flop. The way you played it, I check/call river though. Are you folding to a raise?

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a standard call preflop? I see we're most likely getting 5-1 but we have the worst of bad positions (front of the field with bettor on our right) and our hand pretty much sucks.

Guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

given the CO is in the hand, easy easy east call. You're in good shape vs button's range as well

[Surfbullet]

The flop call was to trap SB. There are very few cards that I don't like here, and he'll call the flop drawing very, very slim.

I donked the turn because I may again catch MP in the middle, I prevent a check-thru if button has garbage, and he will raise worse hands (nearly any pair? he's overaggro.) because my awkward turn bet will often be taken to mean I picked up a flush draw.

In the spirit of a krishanleong-esque post, I actually checked the river. However, I wasn't sure it was the right play at the time - I had underrepresnted my hand, but I expected villain to take a last stab with missed draws and some worse pairs.

Villain apparently raised the turn to charge my "draw" and took the free showdown, showing J8s.

Surf

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a standard call preflop? I see we're most likely getting 5-1 but we have the worst of bad positions (front of the field with bettor on our right) and our hand pretty much sucks.

Guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a very easy call. CO could have nearly anything, and the button was very very aggressive - his numebrs do not do him justice, i had seen him raise some very poor hands, especially in position.

Our relative position is fine - we will most often spike a 1 pair hand, and we will be able to bet, trap CO, and hope for a button raise...or, check-raise buttons inevitable flop bet if we choose to protect a weaker hand like KT on a T54 board.

Surf

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]

If your read is correct that Button is a LAG then I think the river bet is fine (although query why you don't reraise the turn in that case, especially since at that point you still have your OESD to fal back on if you happen to be behind). If he is not, then I check-call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Button was quite LAG,but I think a turn 3bet would blow him off of some weaker hands - smaller PPs, a J, etc.

I actually chekced the river, expecting him to bet a weak made hand or missed draw- I think he would have bet a missed draw, but he checked his J8s. I considered a river value bet here, and so I posted the hand with my alternative play to see what others thought.

Thanks for the input.

Surf

I like the river play, which is similar to the Clarkmeister and the c/c-c/c-bet line one takes with a weak ace against the raiser. A better king here will likely not raise you (as you were in the BB and could have made 2 pair on the end), but a queen or some such hand may well pay you off. I like it.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
The flop call was to trap SB. There are very few cards that I don't like here, and he'll call the flop drawing very, very slim.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think there's a good chance he would have called two cold with many of those same hands and all your flop call did was cause you to miss some bets.

[StellarWind]

It's amazing how many PFR hands your top pair is behind on the flop. It would be easy to overvalue this hand with its trashy one-card OESD.

Two reasonable flop plans:

1. Bet and call the likely raise. Gets two bets in while your pot equity is sound and CO is paying.

2. Checkraise with the same idea and expecting this CO to call with any flop contact. If he's completely buried under the flop (e.g. 87) then I doubt there is ever any money available no matter how you play.

I really don't like your actual play of doing a cheap flop and then putting in extra action after you completely miss the turn. Let the LAG bet the turn for you.

I'm not sure about the river. Normally I check but I would listen to a good argument.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
It's amazing how many PFR hands your top pair is behind on the flop. It would be easy to overvalue this hand with its trashy one-card OESD.

Bet and call the likely raise. Gets two bets in while your pot equity is sound and CO is paying.



[/ QUOTE ]

I like this line alot in retrospect - I have decent equity on the flop, so I can risk getting raised or 3bet - while donking the turn prevents a check-behind and may induce raises from worse hands, he'll be glad to shovel chips in with something like AK or KQ, which has me in trouble on the turn.

As for the river, I checked it - I changed the post to be a bet for value, because I wanted to see what type of reaction it would get...I considered it at the time but usually don't take a line like that.

Excellent input as always. Thanks Stellar.

Surf