View Full Version : One for Boom Boom
5 handed Party 20/40.
I raise UTG with Qc Jh, folded to the button who 3-bets, blinds fold and I call. The button has stats in the neighborhood of 30/8/1.5 and sat down when it was 3 handed, if that reveals anything. His postflop tendencies are unknown to me.
Flop is Js Jc 4h. I bet, he raises, I call.
Turn is a 9. I bet, he raises, I 3-bet, he calls.
River is a 5. I bet, he calls.
Entity
07-29-2005, 12:47 AM
<yawn>
/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Victor
07-29-2005, 12:49 AM
nice flop.
DMBFan23
07-29-2005, 12:52 AM
I don't see what's uber standard about it. I definitely like your line, but if he's only raising 8% of the time preflop, we could start to infer that he might not raise the turn with AA/KK but would call down a turn c/r. also is he more likely to raise your turn bet if you c/call the flop?
anyways, nice hand, but I hope there's some discussion
NLSoldier
07-29-2005, 12:55 AM
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<yawn>
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Justin A
07-29-2005, 12:56 AM
You're lucky he had an overpair this time.
Entity
07-29-2005, 12:58 AM
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You're lucky he had an overpair this time.
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You get more bets out of AK and TT this way too, IMO.
Rob
Justin A
07-29-2005, 01:04 AM
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You're lucky he had an overpair this time.
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You get more bets out of AK and TT this way too, IMO.
Rob
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There was a thread about this, and I think you get more bets by check/calling, then betting the turn.
Entity
07-29-2005, 01:14 AM
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You're lucky he had an overpair this time.
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You get more bets out of AK and TT this way too, IMO.
Rob
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There was a thread about this, and I think you get more bets by check/calling, then betting the turn.
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It could be a limit difference. I've found that in general, when I get 3-bet preflop, I often get another raise out of a hand by donking the flop and the turn. It could be a sample size issue though, as I've only been hitting the 5/10 for around 42k hands (and that's about as long as I've been using this line frequently).
Rob
juggernaut
07-29-2005, 01:14 AM
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You're lucky he had an overpair this time.
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You get more bets out of AK and TT this way too, IMO.
Rob
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There was a thread about this, and I think you get more bets by check/calling, then betting the turn.
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Dunno about that. I caught that thread a couple days ago and have been experimenting with this line.
I think Alobar said it best...something along the lines of "Once your opponent decides you're full of crap, it's hard for him to change his mind." Against an aggressive opponent (which was a key condition in the other thread) the easiest way to accomplish that is to bet the flop. When you bet the flop, they don't believe you (prolly cuz LAGs bet into paired boards all the time and they "know" what you're doing).
Against a passive opponent, your line might be best.
Justin A
07-29-2005, 01:21 AM
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You're lucky he had an overpair this time.
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You get more bets out of AK and TT this way too, IMO.
Rob
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There was a thread about this, and I think you get more bets by check/calling, then betting the turn.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dunno about that. I caught that thread a couple days ago and have been experimenting with this line.
I think Alobar said it best...something along the lines of "Once your opponent decides you're full of crap, it's hard for him to change his mind." Against an aggressive opponent (which was a key condition in the other thread) the easiest way to accomplish that is to bet the flop. When you bet the flop, they don't believe you (prolly cuz LAGs bet into paired boards all the time and they "know" what you're doing).
Against a passive opponent, your line might be best.
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I think this opponent is fairly passive don't you?
NLSoldier
07-29-2005, 01:30 AM
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You're lucky he had an overpair this time.
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You get more bets out of AK and TT this way too, IMO.
Rob
[/ QUOTE ]
There was a thread about this, and I think you get more bets by check/calling, then betting the turn.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dunno about that. I caught that thread a couple days ago and have been experimenting with this line.
I think Alobar said it best...something along the lines of "Once your opponent decides you're full of crap, it's hard for him to change his mind." Against an aggressive opponent (which was a key condition in the other thread) the easiest way to accomplish that is to bet the flop. When you bet the flop, they don't believe you (prolly cuz LAGs bet into paired boards all the time and they "know" what you're doing).
Against a passive opponent, your line might be best.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this opponent is fairly passive don't you?
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But this guy is really passive preflop, which makes the chances he has an overpair increased...
juggernaut
07-29-2005, 01:38 AM
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You're lucky he had an overpair this time.
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You get more bets out of AK and TT this way too, IMO.
Rob
[/ QUOTE ]
There was a thread about this, and I think you get more bets by check/calling, then betting the turn.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dunno about that. I caught that thread a couple days ago and have been experimenting with this line.
I think Alobar said it best...something along the lines of "Once your opponent decides you're full of crap, it's hard for him to change his mind." Against an aggressive opponent (which was a key condition in the other thread) the easiest way to accomplish that is to bet the flop. When you bet the flop, they don't believe you (prolly cuz LAGs bet into paired boards all the time and they "know" what you're doing).
Against a passive opponent, your line might be best.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this opponent is fairly passive don't you?
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Hmmm...don't know what cutoffs people use stats-wise, but PFR of 8 and AF total of 1.5 seem to be above average aggression to me. At least from down here in 5/10 land.
Justin A
07-29-2005, 01:42 AM
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But this guy is really passive preflop, which makes the chances he has an overpair increased...
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And now my head hurts...
But seriously I think the bet/call flop lead turn line is much more scary to your opponent, regardless of what he has. FWIW, if I'm the button, I'm raising the flop, calling the turn, and raising the river with an overpair. Not sure if that makes much of a difference but I think you'll be hard pressed to find a 3bet on the river with that action.
Haupt_234
07-29-2005, 01:45 AM
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I don't see what's uber standard about it. I definitely like your line, but if he's only raising 8% of the time preflop, we could start to infer that he might not raise the turn with AA/KK but would call down a turn c/r
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Wouldn't the PFR% not matter as much for this as the postflop aggression factor? PoF aggression is 1.5 though, so maybe i'm just being a nit. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Haupt_234
Surfbullet
07-29-2005, 02:06 AM
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But this guy is really passive preflop, which makes the chances he has an overpair increased...
[/ QUOTE ]
And now my head hurts...
But seriously I think the bet/call flop lead turn line is much more scary to your opponent, regardless of what he has. FWIW, if I'm the button, I'm raising the flop, calling the turn, and raising the river with an overpair. Not sure if that makes much of a difference but I think you'll be hard pressed to find a 3bet on the river with that action.
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I'm 3betting that action every time, barring a really bad card. That is the "please don't 3bet me!" line.
Surf
Justin A
07-29-2005, 03:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
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But this guy is really passive preflop, which makes the chances he has an overpair increased...
[/ QUOTE ]
And now my head hurts...
But seriously I think the bet/call flop lead turn line is much more scary to your opponent, regardless of what he has. FWIW, if I'm the button, I'm raising the flop, calling the turn, and raising the river with an overpair. Not sure if that makes much of a difference but I think you'll be hard pressed to find a 3bet on the river with that action.
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I'm 3betting that action every time, barring a really bad card. That is the "please don't 3bet me!" line.
Surf
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That would also be my line with AJ.
Surfbullet
07-29-2005, 03:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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But this guy is really passive preflop, which makes the chances he has an overpair increased...
[/ QUOTE ]
And now my head hurts...
But seriously I think the bet/call flop lead turn line is much more scary to your opponent, regardless of what he has. FWIW, if I'm the button, I'm raising the flop, calling the turn, and raising the river with an overpair. Not sure if that makes much of a difference but I think you'll be hard pressed to find a 3bet on the river with that action.
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I'm 3betting that action every time, barring a really bad card. That is the "please don't 3bet me!" line.
Surf
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That would also be my line with AJ.
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You'd get me then. I would raise the turn donk, because I'd expect a bet-3bet out of it often and getting to cap and make sure at least 1 bet goes in on the river is great with AJ.
Surf
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You're lucky he had an overpair this time.
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I know, because there's a super-secret line where I can get more than 2 BBs from unimproved Ace high.
BottlesOf
07-29-2005, 09:59 AM
?
nh
Obviously my hand is good. He had 88, so it wasn't an overpair.
Anyway, not to rehash the other thread but my line gives him an opportunity to make two mistakes that cost him 5 BBs postflop. That plus the two weak leads look totally BS unless you've had this exact line done to you before.
PokerBob
07-29-2005, 10:56 AM
boring
DMBFan23
07-29-2005, 11:06 AM
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Anyway, not to rehash the other thread but my line gives him an opportunity to make two mistakes that cost him 5 BBs postflop.
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what if he'll make a mistake costing him 4.5 sufficiently more often? (c/call flop, raise turn)
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That plus the two weak leads look totally BS unless you've had this exact line done to you before.
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this is true, but wouldn't a flop c-call/turn bet combo look more like an attempt to get AK/AQ to lay down? or do you take the line you took here with something like 55-88 as well?
Alobar
07-29-2005, 11:23 AM
I like.
And as part of the previous thread, im in the camp where this line gets more bets than c/c, donk
Guy McSucker
07-29-2005, 11:26 AM
Anyone care to tell me what the previous thread everyone is referring to was?
Ta,
Guy.
Subfallen
07-29-2005, 11:27 AM
Then obviously the interesting question is how you would play this hand in villain's shoes. I raise turn, fold to 3-bet. What about you?
krishanleong
07-29-2005, 11:30 AM
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I like.
And as part of the previous thread, im in the camp where this line gets more bets than c/c, donk
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Me too.
Krishan
krishanleong
07-29-2005, 11:31 AM
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Then obviously the interesting question is how you would play this hand in villain's shoes. I raise turn, fold to 3-bet. What about you?
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The counter is not to raise the turn.
Krishan
Alobar
07-29-2005, 11:33 AM
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Anyone care to tell me what the previous thread everyone is referring to was?
Ta,
Guy.
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click right here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=headsup&Number=2963819&For um=f8&Words=donkdonk&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=29 63819&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1& newerval=3&newertype=w&olderval=&oldertype=&bodypr ev=#Post2963819)
wheelz
07-29-2005, 11:35 AM
alobar is too fast
Guy McSucker
07-29-2005, 11:37 AM
Thanks mister!
Guy.
Alobar
07-29-2005, 11:40 AM
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alobar is too fast
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I hear that alot ;(
bugstud
07-29-2005, 12:06 PM
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alobar is too fast
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I hear that alot ;(
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at least you get to hear it... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Well, I think AK/AQ unimproved folds to the turn checkraise or checks behind far too much for me to like this line. Further, I think AK in particular is much more likely to just start calling if I bet each street on that board and get to showdown, so that gets me the max. Finally, I think real hands play back at me with very little chance of folding with this line. If you've never seen it, it's geniunely confusing. I risk having the turn go through for 1 bet but I think most players who will sit down at a 3-handed game are going to be on the aggressive side.
Danenania
07-29-2005, 01:34 PM
Damn it. If everyone starts using this it will stop working.
ddubois
07-29-2005, 05:53 PM
Deja vu (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=headsup&Number=2791515&For um=,,,,All_Forums,,,,&Words=&Searchpage=3&Limit=25 &Main=2791515&Search=true&where=&Name=7817&dateran ge=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&body prev=#Post2791515). Except when I do it, I get one reply instead of 30+.
private joker
07-29-2005, 06:02 PM
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There was a thread about this, and I think you get more bets by check/calling, then betting the turn.
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That was my line in this thread. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2825844&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&fpart=all&vc=1)
edtost
07-29-2005, 09:25 PM
ni han fish.
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