All-in early in tournament -- call or not?

[TeeVeeDude]

It's about five minutes into the PokerStars 5+.50 8:10PM tournament. I'm in the big blind with no reads on anybody yet.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1480)
UTG+1 (t1650)
MP1 (t1340)
MP2 (t1800)
CO (t1470)
Button (t3130)
SB (t1460)
Hero (t1240)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, CO calls t20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t60) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t50</font>, CO calls t50, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t1440</font>

Call all-in or fold? And why?

[baronzeus]

id do it cuz i want a big stack

[ThrillFactor]

If you factor in that your opponent may be on a lower flush draw or a straight draw in addition to a made hand, then you're pretty much 50/50 here.

At a buy-in level that I'm comfortable playing at (whether it's $5 or $500 doesn't matter as long as I'm within my roll) I call.

If I'm playing over my head, I might let it go. But that's the problem with playing over your head.

[yimmy9]

why would you let it go when you are in over your head wouldn't you rather gamble since you are an underdog to begin with? thrill your answer just struck me as rather odd

[davidross]

Easy fold.

You'll get his chips eventually if he plays like this, wait until your ahead not drawing.

[Hextallin]

Fold and move on.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy fold.

You'll get his chips eventually if he plays like this, wait until your ahead not drawing.

[/ QUOTE ]

But this is a 5+1, he could literally have anything :-\

[ThrillFactor]

Over your head in terms of buy-in, not skill level.

[DesignProdigy]

if you want to call and gamble just because its a 5+1 i would suggest moving up in stakes.

[davidross]

But he's probably ahead of you so why risk it?

[jhodges]

I think this is kind of a poll with no "right" answer per se. If you are the type that needs a big stack to survive, gambool it up... if you are the wait for a better spot type player wait...personally I like this gamble early in a tourney because you could be way ahead (smaller flush draw)(10% bluff) or behind with a min. of 9 outs and as many as 12(15 outs is too unlikely).

[SteveM]

*grunching*

Seems like an easy fold. You have ace high and insufficient pot odds (I give you about 11.5 outs). If it was me and I thought he was bluffing, I'd just note it and be patient. Wait 'till you have a made hand and then stick it to him.

P.S. I'd also raise preflop.

[whiskeytown]

that's the kind of move a guy makes when he's on a draw - I think he's got a couple high hearts and wants to beat you out of the pot - I don't think he wants a call-

personally, I'd call - hell with it - double up early or get out of the tourney - but that's just the way I've been feeling lately -

RB

[mmbapmashida]

Fold...you have a flush draw.

[TakenItEasy]

Sorry to get a little off subject here but there is something funny about the stacks. I first noticed that the button has already doubled up. I then noticed that there is just a little too much money if it was simply 9 down to 8 with no seat changes. This means at least 1 knockout, 1 replacement player then 1 player moved to another table. All this in the first 5 minutes? I have never played in a $5 tournament so maybe I am underestimating the volitility factor but this kind of action seemms more like a R/A tournament. If this is the case than the answers would probably be very different.

If it's not than with this kind of rediculous action wait for a made hand and bet all-in. Let the other players call off all their money on a draw.

[Havok]

This is an interesting post to me, because I play so many different buy in amounts. At the $5 level early on, you have all these jokers going all in on draws because they are very inexperienced. Bottom line, call here, your most likely ahead. However, later in the tournament, all these jokers will be busted out, so fold to moves like this later on. Long story short, if you don't take his money, some one else will.

[fnurt]

The guy is raising 10 times the size of the pot. You shouldn't reward a massive overbet like that with a speculative call.

Why didn't we raise AQs preflop???????
Your prob behind here already, and shouldnt risk your tourney life on a flush draw although your ace is still prob a good out. The 5$ tourneys are notorious for 2x morerebuys than players in the first half hour but I still like to get my chips in with a huge preflop hand, or a made flop hand.

I was playing the 5 rebuy on pokersars one time, and got aces on the first hand, UTG, went all in, and had 5 callers!!!!! 1 had an a9s, one had 66, 109, kj, and another kj. I was sweatin it but increased my stack by 5x on the first hand and bullied the table from there.
good luck
cdl

[Havok]

Sorry I disagree in the 5 buck tournment early round strategy. If your looking to win, I take the risk here. If your looking to outplay, and just make the money. Than fold.

Similar situation hand for me. Early round 5 buck tournament. I have a pair of nines and flop top set with two of the same suit on board. Two other players in the pot. Both go all in before me, my play. Of course I call. I figure flush draw, and pair. There are no straight possibilites. One had two pair, other, jack high flush draw? The next flush card came and knocked me out. Wouldn't you make this call with top set? I still think my call was correct in that case. And a call in this one as well.

If this were even a 10 dollar buy in I say fold 5 dollar.... chances are crappy flush draw.

CALL IMO

[AACardPlayer]

This is not really the same situation. You're putting you money in with top set as a favorite to take down a big pot and triple up. The OP situations is not as clear as he could be way ahead, if up against another draw, or way behind if the villain has a made hand such a set of 6's.

Nevertheless, I'd probably call here to give myself the oppertunity for a big stack early on.

[TeeVeeDude]

I called. I think after reading all of these replies that it was a mistake. Heck, I thought at the time it might be a mistake, that's why I posted to get feedback. (And yes, I should have raised pre-flop!)

My reasoning: I figured at this level there are a whole lot of players who would push with top pair. Even though I was behind if he had Kx (which I thought was his most likely hand) I had so many outs it was basically a coin flip.

I've read TPFAP and I know it says that the best players avoid coin flips for big pots, preferring to gradually build their stacks. But I also know that I am NOT one of the best players, and I better take the coin flip.

I'm not sure I'd do it again, but this time it worked. He showed Kd 10d. The turn was a blank and the river was 10h giving him top 2 pair but giving me the flush.

I went out about 15 minutes later when my pre-flop push with KK got called by a bigger stack who had 66 and hit his set.

I think I would fold. I would rather cut my losses and keep playing in this situation. Some people would take this chance to double up. I dont think its a bad idea.
Why dont you raise preflop and why do you bet the flop? You have ace high at that point.

[Pondy]

Fold. Let it go this early because you are not even getting 2-1 odds to go all in on a flush draw.

[shish]

Question for the more experienced. Change the cards to this:

Hero has A /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif,

Board is Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif,

Now do you call?

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
It's about five minutes into the PokerStars 5+.50 8:10PM tournament. I'm in the big blind with no reads on anybody yet.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1480)
UTG+1 (t1650)
MP1 (t1340)
MP2 (t1800)
CO (t1470)
Button (t3130)
SB (t1460)
Hero (t1240)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, CO calls t20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t60) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t50</font>, CO calls t50, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t1440</font>

Call all-in or fold? And why?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess if $5 isnt taht much to you (seriously) I'd call. Might as well take a shot to double up cuz you'll need to for the bigger money. Who knows, maybe he has just a flush draw and your Ace will win.

[illegit]

[ QUOTE ]
Question for the more experienced. Change the cards to this:

Hero has A /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif,

Board is Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif,

Now do you call?

[/ QUOTE ]
In this case it's unlikely that your opponent has AQ or KQ w/o having raised preflop meaning both your overcards are likely live if he has top pair (his most likely holding in a $5 IMO), making you a slight favorite. And there's still the possibility of him pushing a worse draw in which case your unmade hand crushes his. I like to build my chips early online since the structures are typically fast so I'd certainly call here even though my edge figures to be minimal most times. In the original example, i probably fold as I'd think I was taking slightly the worst getting bad odds.

[Pondy]

Big Raise pre flop and all in on the flop for me.

[shish]

That's what I was thinking. In the original example, I would think your Queen is most likely not live. Of course if they're making the play with 2 high hearts, then they can't have the K/images/graemlins/heart.gif I would think they would more likely make this play with a K, in which case your Q isn't live taking away 3 outs twice.

For me, I think the whole thing boils down to if you're willing to gamble. I'd fold right away, knowing I could get a better opportunity later.

[Pondy]

Yep, your right. I would fold this especially as its early.