Steal from button (once too many?)

[Raiser]

Party $11

SB does not play his big stack well. He's just sitting around and earlier mentioned that he's on a terrible run this week, so I think he's playing on scared money.

I had pushed my button the previous 4 times. Does that matter here? I think this is an easy push without the history. Is it a push anyway? I need the chips.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">Hero (t870)</font>
SB (t4195)
<font color="#C00000">BB (t1270)</font>
UTG (t1665)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t870 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls t670.

Flop: (t1840) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t1840) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t1840) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t1840

[tigerite]

Standard. I would like to see the previous button pushes however, as some of those may not have been..

Actually hang on. For some reason I thought it was Q7s. Hmm this is much closer with Q3s, possibly even a fold.

[Maulik]

I used to consider this push

You certainly do need the chips, but if you get called you need a chance to win the hand. If you get called let's assume 44+ &amp; A10+ K10+ you have very little chance of winning.

I think you're better of waiting until the blinds come here, because this is a garbage given the possible calling ranges.

[Raiser]

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to see the previous button pushes however, as some of those may not have been.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad you asked. I sometimes feel like I'm posting too many hands /images/graemlins/smile.gif

BTW, looks like I was wrong. This push was my 4th in a row, not my 5th.

BUTTON PUSH #1:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Hero (t945)
SB (t3320)
BB (t1520)
UTG (t2215)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t945 (All-In)</font>


BUTTON PUSH #2

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Hero (t945)
SB (t4470)
BB (t1520)
UTG (t1065)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t945 (All-In)</font>


BUTTON PUSH #3

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Hero (t870)
SB (t4495)
BB (t1570)
UTG (t1065)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t870 (All-In)</font>


BUTTON PUSH #4 was the original hand that I posted.

[durron597]

I think I would ease off because you've pushed the last 4 hands. Q9 I would push.

[tigerite]

I don't like the 87o push at all. The A4o one and the Q9o ones are okay. I would push those too.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the 87o push at all. The A4o one and the Q9o ones are okay. I would push those too.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

The 87o push is better than the A4 push.

1) The SB's stack is smaller
2) 87o is less likely to be dominated.

[Raiser]

[ QUOTE ]
The 87o push is better than the A4 push.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying you wouldn't push the A4 hand?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

Are you saying you wouldn't push the A4 hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

No /images/graemlins/wink.gif I was speaking in relative terms.

[Raiser]

that's what i thought. just checking.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the 87o push at all. The A4o one and the Q9o ones are okay. I would push those too.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

The 87o push is better than the A4 push.

1) The SB's stack is smaller
2) 87o is less likely to be dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

But in terms of hand strength it's a no brainer, also the OP has &gt;6BB which is just not the time to be pushing from the button with crap like that. Also you are forgetting the likelihood of being called by Kx as well, which 87o is still behind, but A4 is ahead of, you can't think only of being dominated by another A all the time.

[me1tdown]

Genuinely curious -- after 3 button pushes in a row aren't you worried that one of the blinds is just waiting to pull the trigger on you? I think Q,3s is a coin flip against a random hand but I'm wondering if by now one of them is completely zeroed in on you waiting for an A or K to fire back. Does this change anything, or is it still push city?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]


But in terms of hand strength it's a no brainer, also the OP has &gt;6BB which is just not the time to be pushing from the button with crap like that. Also you are forgetting the likelihood of being called by Kx as well, which 87o is still behind, but A4 is ahead of, you can't think only of being dominated by another A all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at the BB's stack, are YOU calling with KT here? KJ?

For me KJ is a maybe, KT is a fold. Also remember he hasnt started push festing yet.

[Raiser]

[ QUOTE ]
Genuinely curious -- after 3 button pushes in a row aren't you worried that one of the blinds is just waiting to pull the trigger on you? I think Q,3s is a coin flip against a random hand but I'm wondering if by now one of them is completely zeroed in on you waiting for an A or K to fire back. Does this change anything, or is it still push city?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I'm worried. That's why I posted this hand /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


But in terms of hand strength it's a no brainer, also the OP has &gt;6BB which is just not the time to be pushing from the button with crap like that. Also you are forgetting the likelihood of being called by Kx as well, which 87o is still behind, but A4 is ahead of, you can't think only of being dominated by another A all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at the BB's stack, are YOU calling with KT here? KJ?

For me KJ is a maybe, KT is a fold. Also remember he hasnt started push festing yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you calling with A5-9 ish though? Probably not, so that only leaves AT-K that will be called and you're behind. Also you probably call with 66+ as pairs, well 87 is more ahead of A4 against exactly 66, but otherwise A4 has more suckout potential against the others even up to KK..

[durron597]

Hm, these arent the numbers I thought they were. Lets try two different ranges:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 67.2247 % [ 00.65 00.02 ] { AA-55, AKs-A8s, KQs-KJs, AKo-A9o, KQo }
Hand 2: 32.7753 % [ 00.31 00.02 ] { A4o }

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 67.7241 % [ 00.67 00.00 ] { AA-55, AKs-A8s, KQs-KJs, AKo-A9o, KQo }
Hand 2: 32.2759 % [ 00.32 00.00 ] { 87o }

------------------------------------


equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 70.7049 % [ 00.69 00.02 ] { AA-66, AKs-A9s, KQs, AKo-ATo }
Hand 2: 29.2951 % [ 00.27 00.02 ] { A4o }

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 69.3422 % [ 00.69 00.00 ] { AA-66, AKs-A9s, KQs, AKo-ATo }
Hand 2: 30.6578 % [ 00.30 00.00 ] { 87o }

[tigerite]

Hmmm, interesting. Well maybe it's not so bad a move then with 87o, but I still don't really like it.