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View Full Version : Ace-crap from CO with 5 players....


Raiser
07-28-2005, 10:09 AM
1) Bad PF raise? Is this a fold?
2) How much do you bet on the flop?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Hero (t1082)
Button (t1810)
SB (t1821)
BB (t1214)
UTG (t2073)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t150</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls t125, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (t350) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero???

tigerite
07-28-2005, 10:12 AM
Fold preflop at this blind level.

mlagoo
07-28-2005, 10:41 AM
I think the PF raise is ok.

On the flop, I'm debating between betting 2/3 pot and folding to an allin, or just making a big overbet allin to take it down (because so many turn cards scare you).

I really don't want to bet and get reraised here, so I think I might just push the flop. If he has an overpair, NP, I'll spike an ace on the turn.

I'm real into overbetting lately. Not sure it's a good thing.

edit: I wanted to ask: Would anyone bet 2/3 pot and CALL a C/R allin here?

tigerite
07-28-2005, 10:47 AM
So now you've gone from a preflop raise to steal with a hand like A6s to a push on a 6 high flop. I really don't like this at all. I also don't think the 75 makes enough of a difference to your stack to be risking about 15% of your stack to get it preflop, which is why I would go for a fold.

me1tdown
07-28-2005, 10:57 AM
[ QUOTE ]
So now you've gone from a preflop raise to steal with a hand like A6s to a push on a 6 high flop. I really don't like this at all. I also don't think the 75 makes enough of a difference to your stack to be risking about 15% of your stack to get it preflop, which is why I would go for a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

For giggles I ran the hand through poker stove for both the preflop and the flop against a random hand in the SB. I was a bit surprised at the results and find myself, once again, saying thanks to Tigerite for plugging leaks.

PREFLOP:
2,097,572,400 games 6.589 secs 318,344,574 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 65.3927 % 64.40% 01.00% { AsJs }
Hand 2: 34.6073 % 33.61% 01.00% { random }

FLOP:
1,070,190 games 0.380 secs 2,816,289 games/sec

Board: 6h 3h 4d
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 43.8808 % 42.21% 01.67% { AsJs }
Hand 2: 56.1192 % 54.45% 01.67% { random }

tigerite
07-28-2005, 10:59 AM
Hang on the OP has A6s, not AJs.. I like it a LOT more with AJs.

Er.. the preflop raise obviously, not the push on flop

me1tdown
07-28-2005, 11:14 AM
My bad. Here are the amended results ( and I like the flop percentages better this time):
PREFLOP:
8,390,289,600 games 25.927 secs 323,612,049 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 59.9058 % 58.18% 01.73% { A6s }
Hand 2: 40.0942 % 38.37% 01.73% { random }

FLOP:
3,210,570 games 1.121 secs 2,864,023 games/sec

Board: 6h 3h 4d
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 65.3501 % 63.90% 01.45% { A6s }
Hand 2: 34.6499 % 33.20% 01.45% { random }

tigerite
07-28-2005, 11:17 AM
Yeah, but I doubt SB has a truly 'random' hand. Unless he's a total donk, that is. I suppose once you've got to this point on the flop that a bet of some sort is in order, but I really don't like all-in. Then again I wouldn't be in this position in the first place but, I guess it's a matter of taste. The problem is preflop if one of them comes over the top, you can't call, so you just wasted 15% of your stack and put it out there with no intention of backing it up. That's why I don't like this play.

pooh74
07-28-2005, 11:30 AM
[ QUOTE ]
1) Bad PF raise? Is this a fold?
2) How much do you bet on the flop?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Hero (t1082)
Button (t1810)
SB (t1821)
BB (t1214)
UTG (t2073)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t150</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls t125, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (t350) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero???

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker stove results aside because the SB called and he doesnt have a truly random hand...in fact, unless he is a donk, i assume Im behind after his call when I hold A6 which is why i dont raise with it unless the blinds are bigger or I'm in the money already/both

That said, Ill bet out 2/3 of this pot and hope to take it down right there...I got into this mess, now ill play the hand im dealt, TPTK is the best result i could want with this crappy hand....Ill go broke now if I have to (reads aside). I avoid this mess by mucking PF when blinds are 25/50. The PF is key here because I dont feel comfortable talking about this flop bc I shouldnt be there in the first place.

me1tdown
07-28-2005, 11:33 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but I doubt SB has a truly 'random' hand. Unless he's a total donk, that is. I suppose once you've got to this point on the flop that a bet of some sort is in order, but I really don't like all-in. Then again I wouldn't be in this position in the first place but, I guess it's a matter of taste. The problem is preflop if one of them comes over the top, you can't call, so you just wasted 15% of your stack and put it out there with no intention of backing it up. That's why I don't like this play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it's the %15 number that grabbed my attention. I made a real donk play last night defending a blind that ultimately cost me my stack. I think that if I had been paying attention to the details I would have let it go, but then it wouldn't have been a donk play...

mlagoo
07-28-2005, 11:39 AM
What hands does he have here, that have you beat, that he is risking getting checked through on the flop? The only one that comes to mind is 66 or 44. If he is playing 77-TT, he is betting out here, and not giving you a free shot at hitting what he likely assumes are your two overcards. Anything better he's likely reraising preflop (there's some chance he smoothcalled with KK or AA, but it's not very likely).

This is pretty much a perfect flop, minus the fact that we didn't hit any spades. I'd like to get in all my chips on the flop because a lot of turn cards scare me. I'm definitely betting here. And I think I'm ahead.