Is this "using my position"? Or is it spewery?

[Guy McSucker]

Very good 6-max game on Party. Everyone is too loose preflop, too passive and on the weak side, with the exception of UTG who is a weak tight TAG.

UTG opens for a raise. CO cold calls. I cold call on the button with 44.

Are we comfortable with that?

The SB comes along for the ride and the flop is K 7 2 with two clubs.

Weirdly it's checked to me. Told you they were weak. I bet, SB drops, the others call.

Turn pairs the K. They check again, I bet again.

So am I spewing or using my position wisely?

Guy.

[RunDownHouse]

Was your original plan to check behind just about any card 7+?

[Gambler]

Fold this turd preflop.

[Wynton]

You are guilty of spewery in the second degree. I sentence you to one hour at Party's .50/1 game.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

Was your original plan to check behind just about any card 7+?


[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I'd check any A Q J or T, probably a 9 too and certainly a club other than the 4c. 7 or 8 I might bet again: I think there's a decent chance I am winning but I am prepared to imagine they don't both have 3-2 so they likely have live outs.

Guy.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

You are guilty of spewery in the second degree. I sentence you to one hour at Party's .50/1 game.


[/ QUOTE ]

Which part is spewery?

I'm trying to take advantage of the button more when I have weak, predictable opponents ahead of me, hence the preflop call. What's wrong elsewhere?

Guy.

[Wynton]

Actually, I was just looking for an opportunity to say "spewery."

But my main objection is the preflop call. On the flop, I can't blame you for taking a shot at the pot. And since the K on the turn couldn't have made things any worse for you, it seems to follow that you might as well bet once more. On river, however, I'd feel compelled to fold to the likely river-donk bet.

[rory]

3-bet preflop

[ISF]

If the game is passive I would toss this pf, but other wise I think your post flop play is fine easy turn bet.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

This does not sound right to me. At this table, sounds like there is a very remote chance that the 3-bet will result in getting it headsup, or even 3 ways. And I also doubt that the preflop aggression will help much in moving people off of hands on the flop.

[ALL1N]

I can't imagine why you'd want to 3-bet 44 here.

[rory]

ok the expanded version is if you are going to play the hand at all you should 3-bet

[ALL1N]

I can see 3-betting in a tight game where keeping it 3-way is likely and where people will fold 6-outers postflop, but this doesn't sound like party at all. Wanna elaborate with some other reasons??

[RunDownHouse]

FWIW I asked because I like the way you played it (after pf). Even if you were just trying to get to showdown, that K coming up is the best card in the deck for you, barring a 4. I would definitely have fired again on the turn.

[rory]

even very loose people will fold their blinds to a 3-bet. he could also get the passive guys to fold hands incorrectly postflop, like when an ace flops and they dont have one. if he wants to play the hand at all, he should 3-bet it, especially if the 3-bet is going to be really scary to his opponents.

[Entity]

Postflop I like. Preflop I'd fold but might coldcall 66+, so I don't think it's a huge error.

Rob

[Derek in NYC]

This is a bad preflop call. Postflop, I think it is fine.

[krishanleong]

It's fine. Preflop you are likely getting 4-1. It's not standard but against the right lineup, which it looks like you had, I think you can turn a profit. Postflop is fine too. All fine.

Krishan

[JrJordan]

preflop cold call is fine. You have position and can make up the other 4:1 you need with this loose passive line up. Plus, you get a chance to take a hand like this down /images/graemlins/wink.gif

With three opponents on this flop, I'd probably just take the free turn card and reevaluate from there. Odds are laying you 8:1 to take this pot down, but against a loose passive line up I don't think you take it down often enough to be good.

Given the line you took, I really like the turn followup. Doesn't seem like anyone has a K. You get value from any club draw that's calling, as well as a 2. Likewise you can probably fold to a river donk bet or else take a free showdown UI. It's also an easy fold should you get c/r'ed.

Had you checked the flop, and the turn was against checked to you I'd make a stab at it at that point to. You most likely have the best hand.

[naphand]

and the 3-bet very likely buys him a 4-card Flop should he wish to take it.

[MAxx]

Seems close. Expecting both blinds to play is a reasonable expectation, but not a guarantee. Making up 4BBs post on hit sets is reasonable expectation... but not a guarantee. IMO, folding is prudent... but I think you can turn a profit here if you are a wise player. Occasionally picking up the pot with out improvement is a benefit as well. However, occasionally picking up the pot unimproved also indicates that you may not have had much success making up your 4BBs post...IMO.

I don't really like the 3bet pf suggestion. I 3bet the old 44, but in better situations such as vs raisers with high pfrs who would typically either respect my 3 bet, are kinda weak tyte post, or just as an iso play vs someone worth isolating cuzz they are rediculous and I wanna take a made hand all the way against them. Not vs someone who I assume has a pussyish pfr utg and someone who has already coldcalled and guaranteed multi way action.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet preflop

[/ QUOTE ]
A weak tight TAG open-raised UTG. This means he often has a hand of legitimate capping strength. I am unexcited about the idea of re-opening the betting to him and thus paying four bets to see the flop with 44 three ways when I could have seen have seen it for two bets three or four or five ways.