Concealed 2-pair -- bet this river?

[VarlosZ]

PartyPoker $2-$4 NLHE, 6-Max. We're 4-handed, everyone's got ~$400 in chips. This is my 3rd hand at the table, and I don't recognize the players in the blinds.

I've got 8/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif on the button. UTG folds, I raise to $12 (for stealing/meta-game purposes, of course; not my standard play). SB calls, BB calls.

Flop (pot = ~$34): 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif

SB checks, BB bets $30. I call, SB folds.

Turn (pot = $94): 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB bets $75, I call. I merely called these two streets in order to induce future bluffs (or bets from a medium overpair), and also to avoid a reraise which would put me in a tough spot (this would not be an unreasonable way for villain to play a set of 3s, and the turn completes some straight draws). I feel it was the correct play here, but I'm open to criticism.

River (pot = $244): A /images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB checks. Hero . . . ?

[FatalError]

you should have raised the flop, failing that raise the turn

i don't understand why people slowplay in the 400 NL

[TheWorstPlayer]

Raise the flop, raise the turn, check the river.

[gus thegreatdane]

you played this hand sooooo bad

you flop top 2 in position on the flop and the BB bets $30 into you. RAISE

the turn and river are fine

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
I've got 8 6 on the button. UTG folds, I raise to $12 (for stealing/meta-game purposes, of course; not my standard play).

[/ QUOTE ]

why isnt that your standard play/?

[VarlosZ]

I checked behind on the river. The BB had A/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif.

My thinking on the flat calls on 3rd and 4rd streets is probably results-derived, and raising the flop is likely better in the long run. On the other hand, I don't think it's quite as obvious as some here do. There are a lot of players/hands that won't give any more action if I raise the flop (see above), and there are lots that will and force me into very tough decisions on the turn and river with a much larger pot.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've got 8 6 on the button. UTG folds, I raise to $12 (for stealing/meta-game purposes, of course; not my standard play).

[/ QUOTE ]why isnt that your standard play/?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because even online opponents will tend to notice if I'm raising with everything down to 8-6, and most are eventually willing to reraise with nothing and force me out. That doesn't mean such raises are especially rare from me, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
I've got 8 6 on the button. UTG folds, I raise to $12 (for stealing/meta-game purposes, of course; not my standard play).


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why isnt that your standard play/?


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Because even online opponents will tend to notice if I'm raising with everything down to 8-6, and most are eventually willing to reraise with nothing and force me out. That doesn't mean such raises are especially rare from me, but they are the exception rather than the rule

[/ QUOTE ]

1. you have 86 sooted, it does matter

2. what is your standard play?

i'm honestly curious, because please dont tell me you fold here. and open limping on the button makes me quesy, but some players do it, it's just not my style.

which makes this an easy open raise for me. because...
a. I want to play this hand
b. The pot is unopened

Also, people playing back is precisely why you open pots with 86. Well, more to it then that.

[VarlosZ]

[ QUOTE ]
1. you have 86 sooted, it does matter

[/ QUOTE ]
Not that much, particularly with no one in the pot in a hand I'll probably either steal preflop or play HU. The suited cards look much more attractive, but they don't play much different here.

[ QUOTE ]
2. what is your standard play?

[/ QUOTE ]
Hadn't actually thought about that. I guess it's a fairly balanced mix of raising, calling, and (least common) folding, depending on opponents and table image. Raising is probably more likely here than calling, though still not a majority play. So I guess I was a bit hasty to call it non-standard.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, people playing back is precisely why you open pots with 86. Well, more to it then that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, yes and no. When I raise on the button, I'm a lot more likely to have a hand like KJ than JJ or AK, which means I'm usually not happy to see a reraise from the blinds. With most of my stealing hands, I'd prefer to see the blinds fold or passively call.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
. you have 86 sooted, it does matter


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Not that much, particularly with no one in the pot in a hand I'll probably either steal preflop or play HU. The suited cards look much more attractive, but they don't play much different here.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are more flops where you can apply pressure / take one off with your suited hand. Alot of people joke about suited hands, but in terms of pot equity suitedness is really huge. This is not a joke post.

[ QUOTE ]
2. what is your standard play?


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Hadn't actually thought about that. I guess it's a fairly balanced mix of raising, calling, and (least common) folding, depending on opponents and table image. Raising is probably more likely here than calling, though still not a majority play. So I guess I was a bit hasty to call it non-standard.


[/ QUOTE ]

ok

[ QUOTE ]
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Also, people playing back is precisely why you open pots with 86. Well, more to it then that.


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Well, yes and no. When I raise on the button, I'm a lot more likely to have a hand like KJ than JJ or AK, which means I'm usually not happy to see a reraise from the blinds. With most of my stealing hands, I'd prefer to see the blinds fold or passively call.

[/ QUOTE ]
Obviously taking the pot pf is fine. So is taking it on the flop. So is taking it on the turn. If that fails, taking it on the river is good, too.

Im much happier to see a reraise when I have 86s then KJo, because I will call a reraise about never with KJo, but I'll call depending on size of reraise, stacks, my button steal frequency, and my opponent (and how I think they're reacting to my steals) with 86c.

4 handed this is such a more common situation then full... Which is why I was a little aghast this isnt standard. (pf)

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]

Im much happier to see a reraise when I have 86s then KJo, because I will call a reraise about never with KJo, but I'll call depending on size of reraise, stacks, my button steal frequency, and my opponent (and how I think they're reacting to my steals) with 86c.

4 handed this is such a more common situation then full... Which is why I was a little aghast this isnt standard. (pf)

[/ QUOTE ]

Good advice here.

It also drives your opponents to tilt when they see 86s.

I had a hand where I raised 8c6c, got minreraised, called.

Flop:

Ks Tc 9c

He bets, I raise his shortstacked ass allin, he calls, he is furious to see his AK go down when I catch my 7.

[TomBrooks]

I just call. BB showed an awful lot of aggression against the preflop raiser.