J4o -- I don't know how to play when I post

[Nick C]

This was my first hand at the table, and I had no reads. (Probably I shouldn't have posted in the CO 8-handed. I'm not sure.):

Party Poker 3/6

8 handed

Hero posts in CO with J /images/graemlins/spade.gif 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Preflop: <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop (6 SB): 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn (4 BB): 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB checks, Hero (?)

Check with some crappy outs (and otherwise basically give up), or bet again to continue representing the ace?

[Webster]

I would not have bet - you have an inside straight and a small pot. To many to try to steal.


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[Carmine]

Is it really correct to steal with any two here? I honestly wouldn't know what to say on the turn because I wouldn't find myself in this position ever. Your cards are just to ugly to get involved with IMO, but am curious what others have to say.
Problem is if you bet the turn and he calls again with a draw what do you do on the blank river. You have no showdown value. So do you bet the river also hoping he was on a draw. The only good think I see coming out of this hand is some advertising dollars.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Problem is if you bet the turn and he calls again with a draw what do you do on the blank river.

[/ QUOTE ]

In this situation, I would bet again (I think). The thing is, though, if he's just got a draw, there is some (small) chance I can win on the river by checking behind, in the scenario you describe, so again I'm not sure.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it really correct to steal with any two here? I honestly wouldn't know what to say on the turn because I wouldn't find myself in this position ever. Your cards are just to ugly to get involved with IMO, but am curious what others have to say.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do pretty much steal with any two when I post in the CO and it's folded to me.

I have to admit, though, that when I have a hand like J4o, I'm really kind of hoping there's a limper or two in front of me, since I don't really want to raise. (Also, a multiway pot would say better things about the table than having the action folded to me does.)

My results with these open-raises when I post in the CO have not been particularly good (unless they've worked more often than I think and I'm employing selective memory). I'm starting to think people don't give open-raises from posters much credit (which is unfortunate for me, since my open-raises when I post deserve zero credit).

[Harv72b]

When you post in the CO &amp; it's folded to you, you should be raising with any 2--you are risking 1 SB to win 2.5 (or, in this case, 2.33). Between the times you win the blinds outright, the times you get 1 caller who check/folds the flop, and the times you actually win at showdown, this doesn't have to work very often to be +EV...being that I'm not a math major, I would guess somewhere in the vicinity of 1 in 3, maybe 1 in 4 times. You're getting far better odds than you would with a straight blind steal.

The turn is tricky in this hand. It's very possible that he called your flop bet with a weak draw like a gutshot and maybe backdoor flush draw (you know, what you had /images/graemlins/wink.gif), so betting the turn is probably correct. The question becomes what to do if he calls the turn...with no read, you still can't assume that he's not on a draw (flush, gutshot, whatever), but you also can't check thru the river &amp; expect to be good with J high very often. I'd still bet the turn &amp; check through unimproved on the river (obviously folding to a turn c/r)...I think you get a turn fold often enough for this bet to be +EV.

[Entity]

Preflop and flop are fine. I check the turn, and bet the river UI if villain checks.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
I check the turn, and bet the river UI if villain checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this plan.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I check the turn, and bet the river UI if villain checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he check/folds the river after you check through the turn, I also steal every single time this guy is in the BB.

[ QUOTE ]
(Probably I shouldn't have posted in the CO 8-handed. I'm not sure.)


[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure if Caro's advice applies online, or just live, but he says always pot in the cut-off, or even a few past the cut off. Mathematically, it doesn't make too much of a difference either way, but posting as soon as you sit down offers some positive advertising, showing that you are just looking to play, not to squeeze every nickel out of the game.

On the other hand, sitting out through a bunch of hands will make you look too serious, scaring friendly people away.

I think this has more to do with live play than online, but I wonder if it still works for online.

[chief444]

Not betting an ace high flop after the preflop raise seems kind of silly.

[KDawgCometh]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop and flop are fine. I check the turn, and bet the river UI if villain checks.

[/ QUOTE ]


I do like this, but do you think that hero can get the villian to fold enough times the turn with a bet for it to make EV sense

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop and flop are fine. I check the turn, and bet the river UI if villain checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do like this, but do you think that hero can get the villian to fold enough times the turn with a bet for it to make EV sense

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because there isn't a ton villain will peel a flop like this with on average. Gutshots, flush draws, and an Ace in general. Sometimes weakish pairs like K5/K3/etc., but usually those won't fold the turn either.

Rob

[KDawgCometh]

what if the board doesn't pair, but say an 8 or a 7(non heart) comes on the turn, same check the turn and bet river if check to line UI

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
what if the board doesn't pair, but say an 8 or a 7(non heart) comes on the turn, same check the turn and bet river if check to line UI

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. I'm still getting called down fairly often but usually am getting away with a weird bluff just often enough to make it worthwhile.

Rob

[Nick C]

I bet the turn, BB checkraised, and I folded.

I prefer Entity's line (check on the turn, bet unimproved on the river if checked to) to the one I took.

Thanks for the responses.