An early draw

[Olback]

$33 Eurobet sng

Early draws are one were area were i am unsure of exactly how to play it. Would it have been better to checkraise or push on the flop here? Or did i play it pretty well?

#Game No : 2435003048
***** Hand History for Game 2435003048 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee Trny:14316443 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Wednesday, July 27, 21:16:03 EDT 2005
Table Table 12878 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 2: otter31 ( $1180 )
Seat 3: zumba911 ( $970 )
Seat 4: jomamasmoney ( $1475 )
Seat 5: rfarina ( $945 )
Seat 6: Olback1 ( $775 )
Seat 8: mhn719 ( $590 )
Seat 9: marshallblaz ( $1895 )
Seat 10: traderbetts ( $170 )
Trny:14316443 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Olback1 [ Qc Ac ]
rfarina raises [75].
Olback1 calls [75].
mhn719 folds.
marshallblaz folds.
traderbetts folds.
otter31 folds.
zumba911 folds.
jomamasmoney calls [45].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, 2d, 2c ]
>You have options at Table 11562 Table!.
jomamasmoney checks.
rfarina bets [100].
Olback1 calls [100].
jomamasmoney folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9h ]
rfarina bets [100].
Olback1 calls [100].
** Dealing River ** [ 9c ]
rfarina checks.
Olback1 bets [200].
rfarina calls [200].
Olback1 shows [ Qc, Ac ] a flush, ace high.
rfarina doesn't show [ Kd, Ad ] two pairs, nines and twos.
Olback1 wins 1040 chips from the main pot with a flush, ace high.
Game #2435012134 starts.

[LotsOfOuts69]

I hate AQ, I would just dump this pre-flop, especially since the raise was UTG, by calling you're just welcoming some other moron coming over the top. Plus, what hand are you beating here, UTG has got to have a pair or AK I would think. Its not worth it this early.

Then again I might give too much credit to Party 30+3 players ;-)

--LoO

[Olback]

Alot of times the preflop raise will be with anything from small pairs to a,10 a,j, k,10 etc. If i miss the flop i can then dump.

Anyway given that i called preflop how would you play this hand?

[unreal_nh]

i hate getting into situations like this where you are drawing and when you miss you're out a good portion of your stack. you could throw in a medium sized raise and hope to take the pot right there, but if you're called at least you have quite a few outs.

yeah, i like folding this pre flop.

Calling the raise in front of you from the UTG was the first mistake. IF the flop comes A x x (x being unsuited rags) how do you plan to play? A raise from utg could defenitly mean AK, and your not gonna get 2 pair on a flop that often(i think some1 said 44-1 or somethign around there). As for the draw, a horrible card to complete your flush. Drawing to a flush on a paired board can get you stuck in this sticky situation. I also dont understand the bet at the end, i dont see how your getting called wtihout some1 having a boat, but apperently he thought u had junk. the end bet is also tough becasue if he re-raises all in, you cant really call. I guess the only reason you might merit a bet is that it is unlikly someone would check a boat with that much in the pot.
Just my thoughts, Nice result tho /images/graemlins/smile.gif mite not want to post result cause it affects poeples responses, i know i am result oriented alot.

[unreal_nh]

[ QUOTE ]
the end bet is also tough becasue if he re-raises all in, you cant really call.

[/ QUOTE ]

how could you not call?

[Olback]

I agree a horrible card to finish the flush, but the odds he had finished his boat are low. It was a value bet with me thinking he had an overpair or had nothing.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the end bet is also tough becasue if he re-raises all in, you cant really call.

[/ QUOTE ]

how could you not call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well its alot harder to call the all in then to check and see what he had /images/graemlins/smile.gif. If you had a read and know the guy is willing to move all in with nothing then sure you can call, it was just my opinion.

[unreal_nh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the end bet is also tough becasue if he re-raises all in, you cant really call.

[/ QUOTE ]

how could you not call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well its alot harder to call the all in then to check and see what he had /images/graemlins/smile.gif. If you had a read and know the guy is willing to move all in with nothing then sure you can call, it was just my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah i would prefer checking on the end too. but if you bet 200 and are re-raised all in, you only have like 300 more to call...looks kinda easy to me (since after all, you did make your hand).

[curtains]

I fold preflop here. Once youve called you need to play this hand strongly on the flop. I would move allin. The best thing about draws in these spots are that you have two chances to win. First you can make the best hand and secondly they can fold. You deprived yourself of the second way to win.

[curtains]

Also I think the river is a very easy bet. It seems very clear he doesnt have a full house. Checking too weak here, especially when they will call with an ace sometimes or any pocket pair.

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]

I fold preflop here. Once youve called you need to play this hand strongly on the flop. I would move allin. The best thing about draws in these spots are that you have two chances to win. First you can make the best hand and secondly they can fold. You deprived yourself of the second way to win.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is where I really need to improve. Draws may not be made hands yet, but raising it up with them is almost assuredly correct.

[Maulik]

There are many reasons to hate your call preflop, already mentioned. Surely, you are out of position and still nearly half the table is yet to act, so additionally, you are facing the possibility of being sandwitched.

On the flop, considering moving allin on a paired board doesn't seem like a good option. However, a case could be made for moving allin on this flop assuming original raiser puts in a large bet and your AQ is live and overcard to the board in addition to being four flush.

Muck preflop OOP, muck on the flop w/ paired board.

[LotsOfOuts69]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate AQ, I would just dump this pre-flop, especially since the raise was UTG, by calling you're just welcoming some other moron coming over the top. Plus, what hand are you beating here, UTG has got to have a pair or AK I would think. Its not worth it this early.

Then again I might give too much credit to Party 30+3 players ;-)

--LoO

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to add to my thoughts by saying that I 8-table now, so when I see AQ UTG+1 and there was a raise in front of me from UTG, I muck it without even blinking. It's definitely not worth the effort to try to figure out whats going on and have to play a tough hand so early with 7 other tables going. If you are just 1 tabling, you might be able to get away with just cold calling this. Still, it doesn't seem worth it to me on party cause you can steal blinds and be so aggressive later without even playing a hand early on.