HOW DO YOU PREVENT TILTING [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

josh3336

07-28-2005, 02:02 AM

I tilt so badly. I'll win hours upon hours then take a bad beat and lose it all in the following hands. I can't help it I just get so angry. I yell, I scream, I punch things then I proceed to lose my winnings. I watch it all slip away before my eyes. I tilt midhand when I know they just caught something and call out of spite I can't help it. Like I just flopped a straight and I put this guy on a set then the board was running 3's on the turn and river and I knew he just hit a set and rivered a boat but I check called him anyway cause I was pissed off. I can't help it.... Any suggestions?

baronzeus

07-28-2005, 02:07 AM

I throw [censored] at the wall. That makes me feel better.

josh3336

07-28-2005, 02:10 AM

NO you don't understand thats the first thing I do and it doesn't help any, its usually the laptop which can be a bit of a problem.

jman220

07-28-2005, 02:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I tilt so badly. I'll win hours upon hours then take a bad beat and lose it all in the following hands. I can't help it I just get so angry. I yell, I scream, I punch things then I proceed to lose my winnings. I watch it all slip away before my eyes. I tilt midhand when I know they just caught something and call out of spite I can't help it. Like I just flopped a straight and I put this guy on a set then the board was running 3's on the turn and river and I knew he just hit a set and rivered a boat but I check called him anyway cause I was pissed off. I can't help it.... Any suggestions?

[/ QUOTE ]

Move down in stakes.

josh3336

07-28-2005, 02:13 AM

I'm at the lowest of low I'm hustiling nickels and dimes....

jman220

07-28-2005, 02:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm at the lowest of low I'm hustiling nickels and dimes....

[/ QUOTE ]

And you're still going apeshit when you lose a pot? Maybe poker's not for you...

Equal

07-28-2005, 02:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I throw [censored] at the wall. That makes me feel better.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://604poker.com/images/culprit.jpeg

That's an actual imprint of a TI poker chip in my wall do to... well... let's not go there. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

For some reason the pic won't post. Link below:

http://604poker.com/images/culprit.jpeg

lil feller

07-28-2005, 02:27 AM

To cure the disease, you have identify the cause.

Tilt is caused by losing, simple as that. Letting losing put you on Tilt means that you EXPECT to win. Thats just stupid. No player is entitled to win, ever, throughout their entire life. You need to emotionally seperate yourself from everything around you, including your cards, your bankroll, your results, and your opponents.

Being tilt proof is about being on an emotional freeroll everytime you play. You can't care whether you win or lose a particular hand, or over 10k of them. You can't care if your opponent plays well and outdraws you, or if they play horribly and outdraw you. You can't be excited when you flop a set, and you can't be discouarged when you don't. Tilt is about expectations, and when you enter a poker game with ANY expectation of success or of winning, you are going to be disappointed more often then not.

Free yourself from entitlement and high expectations, and you'll free yourself from tilt.

lf

josh3336

07-28-2005, 02:35 AM

I mean that was really proffettic don't get me wrong but how does one truly do that? DO I have to read "Zen and the Art of Archery" that Howard Lederer is always talking about or what.......

SmileyEH

07-28-2005, 02:55 AM

TYPING IN ALL CAPS USUALLY CALMS ME DOWN

MicroBob

07-28-2005, 02:56 AM

some people liked Zen and the Art of Poker and maybe it could provide you with soime help

(I'm not as big a fan because there are MANY parts where the author indicates that you have to leave BEFORE the cards turn badly on you...somehow yo're supposed to know when this is I suppose).

But you really seem to have some crazy anger-management stuff going on.

Everyone loses individual hands whether they played them well or not.
Everyone loses long stretches of hands whether they were playing well or not.
You are going to be no different.

you are partly frustrated because you think you are smarter than everybody there and not winning all the time (perhaps...it's just an idea).

There is some other stuff over in the psych-forum on this topic all the time.
And Al Schoonmaker wrote a pretty decent article about tilt in the July 2+2 internet magazine (the upper-left corner on the green bar) that may give you some ideas.

I do know one thing though...it is pretty unlikely that you will be a successful, winning player if you continue to behave this way and if the occasional lost hand upsets you this badly.
I mean...Hellmuth and Matusow go pretty ape-[censored] yet seem to win some of the time. But they are the exceptions imo...and you sound like you might even be more anger-prone than them anyway.

I don't have an=y specific advice on how you should get your anger under control. I can just say that if you don't find a way to do it then you are extremely unlikely to find long-term success in poker.

SoftcoreRevolt

07-28-2005, 02:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I tilt midhand when I know they just caught something and call out of spite I can't help it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of spite you give them more of your money?

Can I be your enemy too?

josh3336

07-28-2005, 03:03 AM

Haha yes the list is slowly growing. I know its illogical. I mean not spite towards them but the dealer, ha.

blatz

07-28-2005, 03:06 AM

Breathe deeply and slowly. Poker can be ridiculous, enjoy the laughs.

My friends (and me too) are amazed that ever since I've started making a living from poker, I've actually become much more calm and reasonable; no more starting arguments at bars with strangers, I don't need to flip off every driver within a 2 mile radius, sometimes I even go a whole day without beating my dog now.

Inner peace can reached through acceptance of bad beats...and way more fun than that boring meditation stuff.

lil feller

07-28-2005, 03:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I mean that was really proffettic don't get me wrong but how does one truly do that? DO I have to read "Zen and the Art of Archery" that Howard Lederer is always talking about or what.......

[/ QUOTE ]

Zen and Art of Poker is great.

Unfortunately we can only give you the "what". The how is the hard part and it can't really be explained. I know its easy to say "stop expecting", and thats probably frustrating for you. It is, however, impossible to say "how to stop expecting". Its like a switch that flicks in your head, and one day, you just get it.

lf

dirty moose

07-28-2005, 03:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I throw [censored] at the wall. That makes me feel better.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://604poker.com/images/culprit.jpeg

That's an actual imprint of a TI poker chip in my wall do to... well... let's not go there. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

For some reason the pic won't post. Link below:

http://604poker.com/images/culprit.jpeg

[/ QUOTE ]

i have holes in my wall as well from throwing chips at it, i should take pics

Huckle

07-28-2005, 04:16 AM

A (really bad) way would be to play for money that actually matters. If you lose, and actually lose something that's worth anything, it might make you feel that you really have to learn self-control, because you just can't afford more mistakes.

Don't try this at home.

Klepton

07-28-2005, 08:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
TYPING IN ALL CAPS USUALLY CALMS ME DOWN

[/ QUOTE ]

i was gonna do this

07-28-2005, 11:39 AM

If this is happening, then you do not truly understand poker. That, and you are arrogant.

The absolute best poker players suffer bad beats and pretty much all but one tend to understand that it is part of the game (I don't think there is anyone who doesn't know who the one exception is).

To start with, go back to the fundamental theorem of poker. Your objective is to play as close as possible to how you would play if you could see everyone's hands. But even if you COULD see everyone's hands, you would still lose a decent percentage of those hands because you would still be lacking information about the future - about what cards are going to come up on the board.

Lets say, hypothetically, you have AA - the other players at the table have 22, 33, 44, 55, 66, 77, 88, 99, and TT - while you may have each of them dominated, against ALL of them, 18 out of the 32 remaining cards in the deck will beat you - that means you are an underdog, despite holding top pair pre-flop.

While I recognize that this is an extreme example, it highlights the point that you WILL lose some hands that you think you should win - and you WILL lose some hands even when you are an extreme favorite - even a 99% favorite loses 1 out of 100 times.

My suggestion is to focus less on the outcome and more on your play. If you go all in with AK and some schmuck calls with 72 and the flop comes 772, you lose, but you know you played the hand correctly - and THAT is all that matters.

droolie

07-28-2005, 01:36 PM

I use a level.

DesignProdigy

07-28-2005, 01:39 PM

"buy one of those pregnancy test kits...after you receive the negative results, you can always mumble the phrase... 'hey, atleast i'm not pregnant' and you know better days are around the corner"

CORed

07-28-2005, 01:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Like I just flopped a straight and I put this guy on a set then the board was running 3's on the turn and river and I knew he just hit a set and rivered a boat but I check called him anyway cause I was pissed off

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing wrong with the way you played this hand. (Except you should have called because you had the X:1 odds, not because you were pissed off.) He'd have to turn his cards face up for me to fold here. I don't know how big the pot was, but you will get shown a two pair or something often enough against most opponents to make laying down the straight a big mistake. Besides, getting a straight beat by a set that fills up isn't really a bad beat. The guy with the set is behind, but he has 7 outs on the turn and 10 on the river to beat you. He was almost certainly correct to stay in the hand (In fact, he should have been raising. He had a very strong hand with a very strong redraw if behind and he didn't know you flopped a straight.) He has more outs to a better hand than somebody with a flush draw or an open end straight draw. I think you have a lot to learn if you want to be a winning poker player. I would guess that a lot of the "bad beats" that put you on tilt aren't really bad beats.

On the general tilt issue: Beats (bad and otherwise) happen. You have to take the long view and accept that the person who laid the bad beat on you is giving you money in the long run. You don't deserve to win that particular hand. You do deserve to win over the long haul if you are playing better than your opponents. Bad beats are frustrating. But if you can't keep that frustration from causing you to play stupidly, you should quit now.

nuclear500

07-28-2005, 02:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Tilt means that you EXPECT to win

[/ QUOTE ]

I need to get this through my thick skull and I might become a better player.

nykenny

07-28-2005, 02:53 PM

solution: 8 tabling 30-60 on Party /images/graemlins/grin.gif

OK, just kidding. i guess u can do one of the following:

1) yoga meditation
2) chinese kung-fu meditation
3) meditate before multi-tabling
4) have a unusually large bankroll for your limit
5) play unusually tight

-Kenny

lozen

07-28-2005, 02:58 PM

Hers a trick I used. I bought a set of poker chips. Everytime i play hand i know i shouldnt preflop I have to throw the chips in a pot. Also the ones on turn and river. If I win i can remove the net profit from the pot. Rarely happens by the way. Funny thing is those bad hands that you should have thrown away dont usually just cost you one bet. At the end of the session I see how much in the pot.And at the end of a bad session If you played your A game you still be up its the bad hands you play on tilt that kill you. Cured me immediately next session.

BottlesOf

07-28-2005, 03:32 PM

DO your winning, then when you get a bad beat and begin to tilt. Just stop playing.

Either that, or understand poker and variance better and then you won't tilt to begin with.

Snoopy76

07-28-2005, 04:06 PM

Excellent description of what causes tilting. I find that I am more apt to tilt after winning alot and then begging to lose as oppose to losing immediately upon joining a game. A person trully has to be a blank page when playing and not expect a win or a loss.

I think the best way to gain this state of mind (at least for me) is to play for something other than yourself. I learned a while back that poker is not going to make me rich. It's a very good way to supplement my income and I now play to pay bills, go on vacations, etc. Not only do I benefit from this, but so do my parents, my girlfriend, etc. I have a sticky note on my computer that says 'play for Rebecca' (my girlfriend). It reminds me that I'm not playing for glory or millions, just a steady income. With good play over time I'll make money, over the short run things happen...oh well.

CallMeIshmael

07-28-2005, 04:33 PM

Tilts got banned. That should help!

Bluffoon

07-28-2005, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I throw [censored] at the wall. That makes me feel better.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://604poker.com/images/culprit.jpeg

That's an actual imprint of a TI poker chip in my wall do to... well... let's not go there. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

For some reason the pic won't post. Link below:

http://604poker.com/images/culprit.jpeg

[/ QUOTE ]

i have holes in my wall as well from throwing chips at it, i should take pics

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahaha you rookies. I just finished patching the holes in my wall from when I threw my chair across the room.

bobbyi

07-28-2005, 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
some people liked Zen and the Art of Poker and maybe it could provide you with soime help

[/ QUOTE ]
I /images/graemlins/heart.gif this book. Bought it in 2000 or 2001 and have read it many times since.

velvetdog

07-28-2005, 07:12 PM

Smoking pot might keep you off tilt, but would likely not improve your poker playing.

Seriously, there is great advice in this thread about taking the long view, understanding/appreciating variance etc. Sklansky says to look at poker as one long game; individual sessions or hands do not matter. What matters is making decisions with the highest expectation. Place value on making good decisions not results. The results will take care of themsleves. This is much easier said than done and I struggle with it also (being Italian/German/Irish).

josh3336

07-31-2005, 06:18 AM

Wow I think you guys cured me. I just lost a 111 dollar pot in a NL 25 game where one guy called my pot size bets with my pocket queens on all streets only to river a 6. I wasn't even mad I just laughed it off I found it kind of humorous. Instead of tilting I continued to play solid poker and won all that money back plus some. Thank you guys, IM CUREDDDDD.

Jgents

07-31-2005, 08:46 AM

Win x amount of money so that when you lose x amount of money you will not experience distraught.

EasilyFound

07-31-2005, 10:49 AM

Funny, bad beats usually don't send me on tilt. I am more prone to tilt when fold in a marginal call/fold situation and it turns out that I would have won a monster pot. For example, I was playing a STT, and I folded a small pocket pair in a raised pot. Turned out that I would've flopped quads, and the person who evenntually won the hand had flopped a full house. That kind of siutation is more likely to send me on tilt than if I had flopped a full house and lost to quads.

07-31-2005, 11:06 AM

I am new to poker, and after doing a lot of studying through reading TOP, ITH, the forums etc I had an 80% ROI from playing $2.50 SNG's. Then I had a really bad run, all through lack of discipline, I was acting impulsively, chasing hands etc. I went 7 SNG's without winning.

I decided to let the bar run down to the end every time I had to make a decision, or else count to ten, essentially taking as much time to make a decision as possible, thus eliminating any rash moves. I made 2nd in my last 2 SNG's and the bad run seems to be over. I also found my confidence being affected also had a big effect.

Trev