5-handed decision with 88 (22's)

[ClaytonN]

***** Hand History for Game 2436216740 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:14322581 Level:4 Blinds(50/100) - Thursday, July 28, 00:21:17 EDT 2005
Table Table 13864 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 3: Toby3737 ( $2260 )
Seat 5: Numanovic ( $2020 )
Seat 6: steffyou ( $1025 )
Seat 7: bmx_reed36 ( $585 )
Seat 8: Dumb_Girl ( $2110 )
Trny:14322581 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Numanovic [ 8s 8h ]
bmx_reed36 is all-In [585]
Dumb_Girl folds.
Toby3737 folds.

What to do? BB is read as tightish and not overly aggressive, and the all-in player is somewhat active and loose but not too aggro.

[pearljam]

fold, no reason to get involved this early with your stack when you have such a marginal hand against a push.

[lastchance]

I think Villain's limping the hands you have dominated.

Fold.

[Isura]

I think I need TT here.

[ClaytonN]

I thought it was close, but it appears I was leaning the wrong way. Thanks 4 advice.

[bluefeet]

a very 'general' bubble rule for myself regarding gray areas:

....pushable? push.
....call'able? fold.

[Mr_J]

"I think Villain's limping the hands you have dominated."

I disagree. Up until lately $22s were my main game, and a shortstack willing be pushing most hands they play here.

[The Don]

Ha, I would hate to disagree with everyone in yet another post tonight but I am definitely calling this. Villian is pushing from UTG and that is the key for me here. The average $22ers range here includes 22-77 and A2-A8. 88 is VERY strong 5 handed.

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]

a very 'general' bubble rule for myself regarding gray areas:

....pushable? push.
....call'able? fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this, anyone else agree before I adopt it as a strategy myself?

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

What to do? BB is read as tightish and not overly aggressive, and the all-in player is somewhat active and loose but not too aggro.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think 88 will probably play fine against the opener - it's 5 handed, he's short and UTG, and he's kind of loose - so I don't mind a push here. Actually, since you say BB is pretty tight, I think a call is fine and if you get pushed over the top you can easily fold. This is probably a situation where pushing to isolate isn't going to serve much purpose.

[bluefeet]

yes, but his 'odds' of exploiting 500 chips in the next couple orbits with his stack intact, are better than the potential coin-flip - even against a 'weak' Q9o

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

a very 'general' bubble rule for myself regarding gray areas:

....pushable? push.
....call'able? fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this, anyone else agree before I adopt it as a strategy myself?

[/ QUOTE ]

...assuming your 'gray area' is defined properly /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ChuckNorris]

I can't understand why everyone says it's a fold. This is an easy push for me. Chances are good that UTG is pushing any crap here in desperation. The average range should include at least almost any ace and pair. I think you are clearly ahead and have some - not great, but enough that it matters - pot odds. You even have BB covered so there is no risk of going broke or anything here. Winning the all-in also makes you the chip leader on the bubble with a 10BB shortie.

[11t]

I push if bb is tight and gamble for the chip lead. If you lose you still have chips to play with.

UTG probably has an extremely wide range.

[ChuckNorris]

[ QUOTE ]
I push if bb is tight and gamble for the chip lead.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it matters much whether BB is tight or loose. If they're loose, you gain chips by them calling with hands you dominate and if they're tight, well, the majority of the time they'll fold.

[11t]

Let me rephrase what I meant, I don't push if the bb is some fool who will call with ajs.

[ChuckNorris]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me rephrase what I meant, I don't push if the bb is some fool who will call with ajs.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should. If AJ is the worst hand BB is calling with, they're calling with only ~7% of the hands, and even then your chances of winning the bigger pot are more than 20%.

[Mr_J]

"yes, but his 'odds' of exploiting 500 chips in the next couple orbits with his stack intact, are better than the potential coin-flip - even against a 'weak' Q9o"

Not saying whether it's good to fold or push here, I'm just saying most shortstacks won't be limping.

But I do think this is +ev. Shortie is desperate and needs to play catchup. I think he pushing anything mildly attractive, weak aces, 2 broadway, low PPs etc. I think he pushes wide enough for +ev for a push. you also get 3:2.

I would definately push TT here, and probally 99. 88 to me sounds close but my sng math is pretty far off these days (I took time off and have gone back to my 'feel' style).

Gotta get eastbays tool.

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
weak aces

[/ QUOTE ]

ding

[ClaytonN]

Anyways I decided that while the $$EV was close, the chip EV was in my advantage because villain probably was pushing a crapload of hands in his position.

So, I pushed, and I was fortunate that he had A5o. I won the hand, but that's not really part of the discussion.

[ChuckNorris]

[ QUOTE ]
So, I pushed, and I was fortunate that he had A5o.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was wondering if I'm assuming too wide pushing ranges for a "somewhat active and loose but not too aggro" $20+2 player, since my opinion went against so many others.. It seems like I am not. p000000000000000sh!

[ClaytonN]

Well, I was 8-tabling, and I'm making an effort to get better individual reads as Gigabet stresses even while 8tabling. My read was good enough on this guy, thankfully.