Let's face it im horrible fish

[Lalit Khajuria]

I have now database of 20000 hands in 5 10 -> 30 60 5-6 player games.

And it seems like my problems are these:
Vpip 36.04, little higher in 5 10 little lower in 30 60.

vpip on bb 36.56
vpip on sb 48.4 (!!!???)

my pfr% is only 24%

So what hands do I stop playing.

J-X where X is T-7 hand are loosing the most and to my surprise my vpip even with J7 is 50%.
Same goes with Q-X hands where X is J-8

Maybe you just get too easilly dominated with those hands?

Needles to say im loosing in every level.

Untill this view to my stats I had the feeling that I was just running bad and would start crushing 50 100 when my luck turns.
Now im little embaressed and angry to myself, but also ready to make lot of adjustments.

[etizzle]

just play tighter. Dont ever ever play J7. Ever.

[RunDownHouse]

I would say stop playing 30/60 until you know you're a winning player.

[Alobar]

you are way to loose, and way to aggresive. Tighten up alot PF. Prove you can win, and then start adding questionable hands

[Lalit Khajuria]

How low can I cut it down before blinds will start killing me?
I know only one very succesfull tight short handed player, "Lakerman" - I quess his vpip is something like 24% - how can they make lot of money playing so tight.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
How low can I cut it down before blinds will start killing me?
I know only one very succesfull tight short handed player, "Lakerman" - I quess his vpip is something like 24% - how can they make lot of money playing so tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you read any of the other threads in here? Like, ever?

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
How low can I cut it down before blinds will start killing me?
I know only one very succesfull tight short handed player, "Lakerman" - I quess his vpip is something like 24% - how can they make lot of money playing so tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was beating the 5/10 game with a VPIP of under 22%. My current VPIP is still under 25%

If you go through the archives there were lots of incredible players who had steller win rates with VPIPs under 25.

I think having a high VPIP and being super aggresive pre flop is this romantic notion most posters on here have. Like being 30+/20+ and a winner is somehow so much cooler than being 23/15 and a winner. The reality is that I think very few can do the former, and they are very talented. Not saying you cant obtain this. But its obviously not working for you now, and for someone new to 6max (and if I recal correctly, new to limit as well) its much much better to start out tight and then loosen up. I'd be willing to bet that all the winning 30+/20 players, started out as sub 25 VPIP players and loosened up as they gained in skill and experience.

[obsidian]

Jeez man. You think 24% is tight? More like 19-22 is tight, 23-26 is pretty normal, and 27-30+ is loose. the 28+ range is generally too loose for most people (although not all). A semi decent player should start out tight and then add hands as he gains more experience, not the other way around.

Read the posts here man. I would suggest you check out the starting hand thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=headsup&Number=1897985&pag e=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) as it seems you need much help pre-flop.

As others have said, if you like money don't even think of playing 30/60 until you are sure you are at least a winning player at lower limits. I would suggest 1/2 to 3/6 depending on your bankroll.

[ghostface]

24% is where you wanna be, when you are confident in your ability to play marginal hands.

I'm playing at around 20% untill I understand what is going on. Try that and it will help immensely.

[Lalit Khajuria]

Very good advices. Im going to try playing little tighter and 2 table 5 10 for a while now. Other thing that I realized after saying that preflop play-chart is that I haven't really cared about my position. UTG or CO have been all the same, only difference has been raising even lighter on button.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
Very good advices. Im going to try playing little tighter and 2 table 5 10 for a while now. Other thing that I realized after saying that preflop play-chart is that I haven't really cared about my position. UTG or CO have been all the same, only difference has been raising even lighter on button.

[/ QUOTE ]

I highly suggest PMing Joe Tall, (www.joetall.com), Alobar, or Kiddo for coaching. They are expensive, but not nearly as expensive as losing 1BB/100 in 30/60.

[irishpint]

without reading any replies, i feel like you are a terrible player pf and that regardless of how great you play post flop you can't be winning/winning enough.

my friends who im teaching the game want to play J7 and Q8 and cringe when the fold it. if they can learn, why can't you?

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
without reading any replies, i feel like you are a terrible player pf and that regardless of how great you play post flop you can't be winning/winning enough.

my friends who im teaching the game want to play J7 and Q8 and cringe when the fold it. if they can learn, why can't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's be nice. I am sure with time he can be helped into a winning player.

I've been playing poker for 3 months. In the 3 months, I went from be a terrible tight-weak-passive player who was able to beat limits up to 0.5/1 and maybe 1/2 to a player who beat 5/10 for 40K hands. Since Lalit obviously has some poker background, and I really didn't, and he/she probably has some experience in postflop play, SH will take him/her even less time to master.

Lalit: This may sound weird, since it's for full games primarily, but read Hold'em for Advanced players. It has some really great concepts in it and will certainly make you a better player.

[obsidian]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's be nice. I am sure with time he can be helped into a winning player.

I've been playing poker for 3 months. In the 3 months, I went from be a terrible tight-weak-passive player who was able to beat limits up to 0.5/1 and maybe 1/2 to a player who beat 5/10 for 40K hands. Since Lalit obviously has some poker background, and I really didn't, and he/she probably has some experience in postflop play, SH will take him/her even less time to master.

Lalit: This may sound weird, since it's for full games primarily, but read Hold'em for Advanced players. It has some really great concepts in it and will certainly make you a better player.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's interesting considering it is almost the exact same story as myself. Started poker 4.5 months ago at .5/1 with a $100 deposit (ran good) and just kept moving up to my current winning 50k+ hands I have in at 5/10.

Lalit, I think if you read the threads here, post hands, and are willing to listen to the more experienced posters you can turn your game around.

[ChicagoTroy]

[ QUOTE ]
I think having a high VPIP and being super aggresive pre flop is this romantic notion most posters on here have. Like being 30+/20+ and a winner is somehow so much cooler than being 23/15 and a winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Superkickass point.

[Chillout]

First step to improvement is admitting you have something to improve. You've done that. Good work. Now just tighten up a bit preflop, as you've suggested yourself and as others here have pointed out, and you'll be winning in no time.

Play patiently, tight and agressive postflop when hit. 5/10 isn't more complicated than that.

(FYI I'm a winning player at 10/20 for one year and played 5/10 a year before that. Over my last 7k hands (sorry my DB crashed a month ago) my VPIP is 31%, PFR 20%, BB/100 2.2. I consider myself semi-tight agressive. A good player but not great.)

[Lalit Khajuria]

Thanks for everybody.

1500 new hands is offcourse very little. But I think im going to right direction.
Changes I made immidietly to my game after this thread:

Play tighter, almost like the starting hand chart.

Continue hammering on turn instead of checking after opponents check, even if I hava like only A-high or small pair, this seems to be a great change.

Folding after opponent raises instead of reraising, good example is KJ, QJ now I fold after solid opponent raises.
Just noticed the chart actually recormends reraising KJ..

Value bet more hands like 2nd pair with weak kicker, it's amazing how much people call with even worse hands.