B&M Final Table

[RonH]

Hi,

First MTT post, so please forgive how this hand looks. I am at the final table of a 120 player live tournament. 8 players left. Blinds are 3000/6000 Ante 500. I have 12000.

I pick up A /images/graemlins/spade.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG Folds
UTG+1 Calls 6000 (Has about 30000)
MP +1 Folds
MP +2 Folds
Hero Calls
CO Folds
SB Folds
BB Checks (7500)

Flop comes J-3-3 Rainbow (no spades).

BB who has 1500 in chips remaining checks.
UTG+1 checks.

At this point, I figure the BB for garbage and UTG+1 for a small pair or KJ, KQ, KT. I'd played with him earlier in the tournament and he seemed to call with these types of hands. With the pot now at 25,000 I figured I'd throw in my last 6000. I know they both had great pot odds to call, but I thought I might have the best hand. I though UTG+1 would probably throw away 2 high cards if he had no jack.

BB throws away his hand.
UTG+1 calls and flips over A3.

So, I am done. Was my bet on the flop completely stupid. I've gone back and forth with myself several times and keep convincing myself both ways. I can't seem to make up my mind.

My other issue is pre-flop. Should I have pushed this hand all-in for my last 12000?

Thanks,
Ron

[DrowningOut]

Easy push.

[RonH]

Yeah, that's what I was kicking myself in the ass for a couple of hours after. My reasoning at the time was that the BB would throw in his last 1500, we'd both call, check down and eliminate 1 more. Kinda inexperienced at final tables, so it was dumb. Been making some more online, so hopefully it'll get better.

Thanks

[durron597]

Easy allin preflop 100% of the time.

[Grisgra]

Seems to me that if you had the opportunity, you should have pushed a lot earlier than this.

[AceHiStation]

Am I misreading this? It looks to me like he limped for half his stack... I'd say easy push preflop, but expect to get called... unless I'm missing something which it feels like I am.

[RonH]

Nope. You're not missing anything. I was going to push and then something changed my mind and I realized almost immediately that it was dumb. Kicking myself for it for a while. Now that you've all confirmed what I thought, here is the question. Once I stupidly put myself in this situation, did I compound it by pushing after the flop?

[Scooterdoo]

You have to push this pre-flop, but I would assume the initial limper would call this bet with A3 and you would have lost no matter what so it was a mistake, but a mistake that wouldn't have cost you anything if you played it correct. Two points: 1) the initial limper played this much too lose IMHO. It doesn't make much sense to limp with a weak hand like this that is likely to face a raise from a dominating hand (like yours!) and be out of position. If it was 5-6 handed, maybe, but not 8 handed. 2) you should never allow yourself to get down to 2x BB. You have to make a move with any two cards much earlier than this. As a guide you should do it when your raise has some teeth and your opponents will need an above average hand to call you. At 2x the BB you are going to have to win at showdown. In this case you did get a decent hand, but often you won't. Build some fold equity into your all-in play.

** if you got down to 2xbb because you recently lost a pot, then ignore my second point!

[RonH]

The blinds were going up real quick. About 180,000 chips in play, so average chip stack was less than 25,000. So, even the average stack only had 4xBB. I did lose a pot a few hands earlier. The tournament ups the blinds every 15 minutes. So, in 30 minutes it goes from 1000/2000 to 3000/6000. I guess it kinda snuck up on me. I will have to keep that in mind next time.