KK in MP - turn check?

[Fiddler]

Not much of a read on these guys since I've never seen them before but SB could be very aggro on the turn without much... although it might have been against a specific player that had left the table at this point. UTG hadn't made an impression either way.

Absolute Poker 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

Freecards for pocket pairs and aces where the A/images/graemlins/spade.gif gets the best deal with a lot of outs but he is coming either way... and that is if there is an ace out to worry about since the flop looked a bit suspicious. But I don't know. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[BabyJesus]

Looks good to me. Can't feel too great about SB check 3 betting on that board. Check behind looks good, get a free chance to hit your K and get bets out of a 6 (most likely SB), or frush.

[obsidian]

That looks fine. I think betting that turn would be horrible as the c/r by SB is either a 6 or flush draw. Definentely check the turn and bet or raise any spade or K river.

[JrJordan]

Hmm, tough one. UTG most likely has a mid PP or paired T, so any bets he puts in is a nice overlay for us and is drawing at best to 2 outs. Giving him a free card isn't a big deal but we do want to extract the max value. If we bet the turn and SB doesn't c/r, then I'm sure he's coming along for at least 1BB. If SB c/r's then more often than not he folds.

Which brings us to SB. Your read says he can be a liberal checkraiser here, which is especially scary considering his flop action too. His possible hands are a T with a high kicker, a 6, or a flush draw that's raising for value. It's difficult to tell whether his turn check is him going into call down mode with a T and your flop aggression, or an opportunity to c/r with his 6/flush vs. your likely overpair.

In the moment I bet it out, and call a checkraise. I'd most likely call the river UI due to the size of the pot alone and the fact that I have no reads on these guys. Wow, looks like I'm losing the max in this hand if I'm behind. Perhaps a turn check isn't all that bad...

[baronzeus]

Id say you're getting C/Red here 95% of the time, and you still have a good # of outs.

[JrJordan]

Yeah, I'm already changing my mind on this one.

[Redd]

If we check the turn behind, do you call a river brick if the action goes:

1) Bet-call?
2) Bet-fold?

[obsidian]

[ QUOTE ]
If we check the turn behind, do you call a river brick if the action goes:

1) Bet-call?
2) Bet-fold?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, I think that is the real question of this hand. I have a hard time putting SB on a hand I beat but without reads I would like to see a showdown, especially if UTG folds.

[Fiddler]

[ QUOTE ]
If we check the turn behind, do you call a river brick if the action goes:

1) Bet-call?
2) Bet-fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm calling in both cases.

[Fiddler]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If we check the turn behind, do you call a river brick if the action goes:

1) Bet-call?
2) Bet-fold?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, I think that is the real question of this hand. I have a hard time putting SB on a hand I beat but without reads I would like to see a showdown, especially if UTG folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, me too but like you say my reads aren't that good yet and I'm willing to put in 1BB on the river.

[baronzeus]

Just a quick note, UTG played this like he had a ten or a flush draw and SB played this like he had a 6.

[coolhanded]

Based on his flop call, looks to me like UTG is more likely to have flushed than SB. SB's flop play makes me think he's put you on AK/AQ, has a T or a mid-high pp, and is 3-betting to get rid of UTG.

Problem with betting the turn is that if you are raised, you could be way behind to an Ace-high flush but you'll want to call it and see the river with K /images/graemlins/spade.gif and 4 outs to a boat (6s and Ks). Betting the turn and being called won't tell you a lot.

I'd check and see what the river brings.

[Fiddler]

The river was the J/images/graemlins/spade.gif. They checked again, I bet and both of them folded.