Do I fold my Jacks?

[Vee Quiva]

$55 at Party Poker. Blinds 15-30. 10 players left all with stacks between 800-1200. I have 925.

I'm in the cutoff with J /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

3 folds, middle player calls 30, two folds, I raise to 90, Big Blind calls 60 and middle player calls 60.

285 in the pot and 3 players to the flop.

Flop: 10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB bets 275, Middle player calls 275.

I folded.

If one of them checks or folds, I push all it all in. When one bets the pot and the next one calls, can I assume I'm beaten?

[Maulik]

It is early in the tournament, I don't like playing for a big pot without a monster. Raising to t90 in CO is fine, yet debatable.

If its checked back to you and pushing all-in is not, you’ve risked all your chips to win t285 early in the tournament where the risk/reward ratio is not high.

I’m not sure what I do being in CO being offered 3:1 and closing the action. If I do call here there can be a case made for pushing any non /images/graemlins/club.gif, I think. Regardless, I’m pretty confident I fold here barring some read from a previous tournament against either player.

[45suited]

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It is early in the tournament, I don't like playing for a big pot without a monster. Raising to t90 in CO is fine, yet debatable.

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That's funny... when I read his post, I was going to suggest raising a little more with JJ from the CO after one limper.

Why does everyone act like JJ is such a weak hand? There is one LIMPER and he's in the CO.

Anyway, I play the 22s and 11s FWIW. On those levels, I'm pushing this flop after that action every time.

[arod15]

One has the 10 the other has two clubs and over and you have jacks ahead of both of them with a lot of redraws to beat you. I think i like your raise. And here either move in or fold. (lean towards folds as i think facing two players your going to lose more often than not and its early)

[Maulik]

Raising more in CO is fine too and if so, do you make the raise pot sized?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
when I read his post, I was going to suggest raising a little more with JJ from the CO after one limper.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
On those levels, I'm pushing this flop after that action every time.

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[45suited]

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Raising more in CO is fine too and if so, do you make the raise pot sized?

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I might be biased because of the levels that I play, but I'd probably raise to 110-120 or so, but that is probably splitting hairs a little bit. I really hate limping here though. JJ from the CO after one limper is a big hand and I'm not letting the blinds in for free.

[RiverDood]

Well, 33, 99, TT or T9 beat you. AT and KT don't. The sets mightn't open from the BB so aggressively, but T9, AT and even KT certainly would. . . . When we think about what MP might have, it's a mixed bag but not very soothing. KT won't play. The sets surely will, as will T9. QJc or even QJ with one club could make a play for it, too.

So unless you're lucky enough to be up against two guys with AT, you're probably in trouble.

That said, on this hand, I'd mostly be angry at myself for letting it be a three-way pot so cheaply. If someone's playing T9 from the BB or MP, you should have sent them packing with a more aggressive bet before the flop. With an opening bet of T120 or T150, it's more likely to be heads up. In that scenario, you're still not guaranteed to win this flop, but you could play it a whole lot stronger.

[Jay36489]

I would raise PF to 4x BB because of the limper. I Push this flop everytime.

[AliasMrJones]

I'd typically raise to 120 there rather than 90. (3xBB + limpers) With a straight draw, flush draw and T-high board I think you have to push the flop.

[sahala]

Isn't the guy with two clubs playing incorrectly by calling a pot-sized bet? Unless he thinks the other guy will call if a club hits.

[Vee Quiva]

Enough on the raise more preflop. I got the message.

As for the main question....The reason this decision is so hard is because I am assuming the middle player has some intelligence.

When the BB bets the pot, he most likely has a 10. If he has a set, he checks or bets smaller to lure one of us in. Probably the same line with two pair.

The middle player is getting 2-1 to call. I am assuming he calls to slow play something or hoping for the over call from me. If he has a flush draw, he should be folding. His second best option is probably to raise all in.

Do any of you guys who advise pushing in anyways change your tune if 3 players bet into me versus 2?. Is your general line to assume overpairs are ahead a high enough percentage that you push no matter what happens?

[Jay36489]

I definitely wouldn't push no matter what happens. I would need to see a lot of strength to get pushed off that hand though. One bettor, then two callers could be enough.

[Unarmed]

The middle guy has f*ck all, especially given the PF action.
You should be mostly worried about the BB leading into two people INCLUDING the PF raiser.
I still push.