KQ - What do i do?!?

[POKhER]

No reads, before i get flamed - Multitabling+no PT = Reads hard

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.


Turn: (8 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Button calls, SB folds, Hero calls.


River: (11 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Button folds, Hero .....

Final Pot:

I just think i played this really badly, And want opinions on how you play such a crappy flop?

I also misread my outs to the gutshot as 4, But 3(Spade may make a flush)

Thanks

edited: removed Final pot

[MrWookie47]

This hand is fine, assuming you fold the river.

[Rev. Good Will]

[ QUOTE ]
No reads, before i get flamed - Multitabling+no PT = Reads hard


[/ QUOTE ]

How ever many tables you are playing, drop down to less and use the notes function that stars has. That is what I did to get my roll from $75 to $200 on stars .25/.5, all w/o PT (which I now own, but still don't use alone, my notes are jsut as, if not more valueable)

Also, don't discount your outs fully, drop the 4th T spade out to maybe .25, cause you have a redraw to the 2nd nut flush.

Now with those 3.25 outs you have, that gives you an excelent 14% equity, and 1:13.5 odds to catch on turn, I'd just check, and hope for a free card.

EDIT - just a note if we had smaller field with weak players, betting is a good option

EDIT2 - I effed up counting my outs... its 5.5, and I change my vote on the flop to betting is sexy

[topspin]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand is fine, assuming you fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
River: (11 BB)
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Button folds, Hero ...

Final Pot: 12 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Methinks you assume correctly /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think the turn is close either way. You're getting 1:10 so you need a bit more than 4 outs. Hero has 3 clean outs, plus part of an out for the T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (Button is the main candidate for holding a flush draw). If villain has either an A or a J, our K/Q outs are not useful, but I suppose that if villain is aggressive he might be pulling this stunt with an underpair.

I also don't think we're winning on the river with K-high even 1 in 12.

[aargh57]

I don't know if you can discount your outs that much. You also have a 2nd highest backdoor flush draw. I actually put your outs at about 5: inside strt~3.5 + bkdoor ~1.5 =5
I think your flop and turn play was fine and an easy fold on the river. I think another option would've been to check/call the flop but I like betting better.

Edit: I'm counting your outs on the flop. On the turn, of course you take away the 1.5 for bdoor flush. Still good enough to call (or very close) though even if you only count it as 3.5 outs.

[topspin]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if you can discount your outs that much. You also have a 2nd highest backdoor flush draw. I actually put your outs at about 5: inside strt~3.5 + bkdoor ~1.5 =5

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he's talking about the turn, not the flop; the flop's an easy call for just 1 more back to him.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
No reads, before i get flamed - Multitabling+no PT = Reads hard

[/ QUOTE ]

get reads. i'm not really trying to pick on you, but you haven't posted reads in any of your hand posts ever. so i guess i am picking on you.

seriously. just get them. if you can't get them, imho you shouldn't be multitabling. or, if you don't care, then accept that a large multitude of hands with present you with uncomfortable situations.

i check the flop and evaluate based on later action.

[aargh57]

Yeah, sorry. Just caught that. At least you didn't do a FYP thing on me.

[topspin]

[ QUOTE ]
i check the flop and evaluate based on later action.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about this too, but with just 3 opponents and a big pot I like firing here and hoping to just fold everyone out or get it HU with a draw. If I get called in lots of spots I can get passive on the turn.

Perhaps I'm overly optimistic here, but this looks like a scary board to your opponents also. Unless they have some piece of this board (in which case you're in very bad shape), they'll find it hard to continue with something like a small pocket pair or an inside straight draw.

[nomadtla]

*grunch*
Sometimes the flop is so ugly I just wouldn't bet it as the PFR. You have about 4.5 good outs by my count (3 clean tens, 1 dirty ten =.5, and Q high BDFD =1) so you have the odds to call that flop, the only thing your flop bet did was inflate the pot enough that the turn becomes a verry close decission.
In short:
check/call flop
check/fold turn
As a side note:
[ QUOTE ]
No reads, before i get flamed - Multitabling+no PT = Reads hard

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe Grunchcan multitables with no PT and still has some good reads in his posts. I think if A+B=C and C= -EV then you need to corect A or B. Get PT, or single table and refine your reading abilities. I personally don't have PT but I know my reads aren't quick enough or solid enough to multitable so I don't do it.

[POKhER]

Lol you bully you!

Yeh i agree, I usually have reads and am now single tabling.

I just moved to pokerstars so it all feels strange and im now working on getting reads. Strange but moving to a new site always temporarily disrupts my play.

Ill focus on getting reads and making notes, even if they are poor.

Thanks for replies guys, I hated this flop and as most of you know i folded the river.