K9s

[POKhER]

Guess what? First orbit - No reads on his PLAYING STYLE

Table seems standard .25/.50 Stars, Lots of river folds/Weakscared opponants.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, CO folds.

Turn: (3 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero......
Uh ho? He got a 5? No way.. Early position? But hes played like it? Fold?

[silkyslim]

Id call down. He might have a 5, but what logical reason would he have to check it on the flop. You might see a PP larger than a 5, an A4, a king, or something strange. Get a read on this guy.

[NobodysFreak]

Since its the first orbit, I'd probably just call the turn bet. Its been my experience at the micros that with a flop like that people tend to wait until the turn to raise if they have trips. I'd probably call a river bet, too, unless a K fell.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
Guess what? First orbit - No reads on his PLAYING STYLE

Table seems standard .25/.50 Stars, Lots of river folds/Weakscared opponants.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, CO folds.

Turn: (3 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero......
Uh ho? He got a 5? No way.. Early position? But hes played like it? Fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

raise preflop.

get reads.

[POKhER]

I really need to learn what hands play best against what, must read/Remember SSH.

Didnt think raising was good its only K9s - will do shorthanded next time. SSH chart says call MP/Late and fold EP.

Cant get reads - No pokertracker/First orbit thats tough.

[MrWookie47]

[ QUOTE ]
Uh ho? He got a 5? No way.. Early position? But hes played like it? Fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's the BB. You didn't raise preflop. He could have any two. I think I fold.

[imported_The Vibesman]

First I'd say raise this preflop, trying to eliminate blinds. Without reads I call down the turn raise, and the inevitable river bet, as sometimes this will be K-worse kicker (out of the BB in an unraised pot) or even a four which just hit and doesn't think you have a K or 5 (since you're on the button and didn't raise preflop, a K is less likely, and who carries a 5? Also it was checked to you on the button, could look like you were bluffing at it - of course I don't know why the 4 would call the flop bet.)

edit: I agree, it's more likely he has a 5 than if the pot was raised preflop. Plus lots of people like to wait until the turn to raise w. trips.

You don't need pokertracker or computer programs for reads. I don't use any of these. Just observe. If you are playing more than one table at a time, that may be the problem.

[NobodysFreak]

For those who suggested a raise PF to eliminate the BB... do you really think you're gonna get the BB to fold PF at the 0.25/0.50 limit? Its his first orbit with no reads, a PFR raise in this position is unlikely to fold anyone out who's already in for 1 SB (IMHO).

[nomadtla]

*grunch*
I think BB may just be making a play at you. Though this is standard donk play for flopped trips. I call the turn and call the river or check behind UI. I think I'd even bet this if a 9 came off and it was checked to me on the river.

[POKhER]

Cheers guys,

I called his bet.

i check called river UI(But should have folded it - But im stupid and forgot he was the BB - Else i'd have folded the turn raise) = MULTITABLING = ME SUCK(So i single tab for now)


He showed 54o

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
For those who suggested a raise PF to eliminate the BB... do you really think you're gonna get the BB to fold PF at the 0.25/0.50 limit? Its his first orbit with no reads, a PFR raise in this position is unlikely to fold anyone out who's already in for 1 SB (IMHO).

[/ QUOTE ]

Whether it will work or not is immaterial, and worrying about it is results-oriented. The point is the correct play is to raise this hand with absolute position and only one limper to either a) get the hand HU against the limper, b) take the pot down right there (the limper may be making a stab at the pot), or c) force the blinds into making a bad play by calling a raise with crap cards (IMO, if you raise, SB folds and BB calls with 5x that's not 55, he's made a mistake, for instance).

[nomadtla]

[ QUOTE ]
i check called river UI(But should have folded it -

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you have a better idea what his checkraises mean. I don't think calling this down just to see what he plays that way is a terrible waste of money if you can put the info to good use.
Single tabler w/out PT here too. There's no shame in it man, and it doesn't mean you suck.

[imported_The Vibesman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For those who suggested a raise PF to eliminate the BB... do you really think you're gonna get the BB to fold PF at the 0.25/0.50 limit? Its his first orbit with no reads, a PFR raise in this position is unlikely to fold anyone out who's already in for 1 SB (IMHO).

[/ QUOTE ]

Whether it will work or not is immaterial, and worrying about it is results-oriented. The point is the correct play is to raise this hand with absolute position and only one limper to either a) get the hand HU against the limper, b) take the pot down right there (the limper may be making a stab at the pot), or c) force the blinds into making a bad play by calling a raise with crap cards (IMO, if you raise, SB folds and BB calls with 5x that's not 55, he's made a mistake, for instance).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Also, if BB is just going to call anyway to see the flop with crap, get him to put more money in. I'm putting him on random hands right now, which means I have a better hand to start with. If he hits the flop, he'll hit when you don't raise...if he doesn't, he probably won't call too many more bets, so I'll get the raise in now so I can get more dead money in when he doesn't hit. Understand, I would definitely rather he folded. But I'm not raising for this reason only, I may have a better hand than him. Also, in this particular example, the small blind is in too. He's got a much easier call if it is only 1/2 a SB back to him with 2 limpers plus blind.

[Nilbud]

[ QUOTE ]
... do you really think you're gonna get the BB to fold PF at the 0.25/0.50 limit?

[/ QUOTE ]

ummm...yes, I do. This is definitely a raise.

During the EU day, PS .25/.50 is completely tight/weak. I saw a guy an hour ago with 0% VPIP after 70 hands!!! He finally played a hand, even capped it on the flop, and then folded for one bet because three to a flush appeared.

The blinds regularly fold to a raise, especially the SB.

Sometimes, it's fun to try to steal the blinds from EP. You would be suprised how often it actually works, or at worst you end up HU.

[eviljeff]

absent a "tricky bluffer" read this is a pretty easy fold

[Guthrie]

I'd call it down also, but at this limit I've often seen fish slow play trips, and I've got the burn marks to prove it.

[NobodysFreak]

My post was meant for those who suggested that raising was the best option so that the fear of the dreaded five could be eliminated. By raising, I don't think you're going to accomplish this goal. I agree that given this position, a raise is warranted, but any justification for it based on the flop is no good because I don't think you're going to eliminate the BB often enough.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
My post was meant for those who suggested that raising was the best option so that the fear of the dreaded five could be eliminated. By raising, I don't think you're going to accomplish this goal. I agree that given this position, a raise is warranted, but any justification for it based on the flop is no good because I don't think you're going to eliminate the BB often enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, so then why is a raise warranted? K9s doesn't have showdown value, so you're not raising for value. The only possible justification is to limit the field. If you're convinced that's not possible at .25/.50, then the only time you should be raising preflop is with AA/KK/QQ/AK.

Oh, and I think that at any level by raising you're at least limiting your exposure to, specifically, a 5 to, probably, those suited with an ace or a connector, if your opponent knows anything, so in most instances when you're faced with a low-paired flop after a preflop raise you can eliminate the concern for trips.

[NobodysFreak]

The pre-flop raised could (and its a big could) be warranted because I'd expect to be playing better than my opponents post-flop. He has position and its likely that it'll be checked to him on the flop. If it was, I'd likely fire a bet on the flop with the hopes of getting it checked to me again on the turn.
If I was check-raised on the flop, I'd probably call and fold to a bet on the turn if bet into and UI. If its checked to me again on the turn, I'd check for a river card and possibly call down.
If I was called on the flop, and bet into on the turn, I'd have some deciions to make and I'd probably fold more than call.
Its been my experience that the check-raise is the power play for many players at these limits and I might even fold on the flop if I was check-raised (given reads). Without reads on my opponent, I'd probably be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.