I Almost Snapped :LONG:

[34TheTruth34]

Several people, both on this forum and in the "real world", have questioned why I play 1-3 and not higher. There are a myriad of reasons for this, and one of the responses I usually give is that the competition is easy and the players are easy to read and you don't have deal with the a**holes that seem to be prevalent in the higher limits (though I doubt I'd see many of them if I moved up one or two levels to 1-5 or 5/10). However, on my most recent trip to the poker room, I encountered an opponent who was both difficult to read and a total a**hole. Wait, wait, that's not a nice thing to say. Let's just leave it at he raised every single hand, constantly breached poker etiquitte, yelled at waitresses for not serving him drinks fast enough [he was not intoxicated], and was rather rude and obnoxious. There, I feel better about myself now. Anyway, he's in the 8 seat and I am in the 1 seat. Rest of the table was average, somewhat timid, but no major fish. Here are some hands I played with him:

1. 2 /forums/images/icons/club.gif brings it in (4 seat), two callers, he raises to $3 with A /forums/images/icons/heart.gif. I have split kings and make it $6, everyone else folds. He just calls, confirming my read that he doesn't actually have aces. He check-calls me down to the river. I have kings up and his board is A /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 2 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif J /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 2 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . He check-raises me and flips over 3 queens in the hole for a rivered full house after I was ahead the entire way. I muck and he asks to see my hand. This really set me off. "I always ask to see my opponents hand at the end if we are heads up", he says with a proud look on his face. I get slightly agitated.

2. He has the low with a 2 and brings it in for $3. I have split aces and raise to $6, the rest of the table folds and he calls. I make split aces up on 5th street and bet all the way. I bet the river, he raises with a board of 2-T-8-T. I call, he caught a 2 in the river to make 2's full. Prepared for his antics, I quickly attempt to shove my cards into the discard pile. The dealer fishes them out at his request and shows the table my loser. He makes some comment like, "I have a right to see the hand if I want". I respond with, "that's fine, but just keep calling my raises with a pair of deuces, that's all I ask". Very unlike me, to say the least. He responds with, "I'll call with whatever I want". Agitation level: very high now.

3. I have to bring it in with (3 /forums/images/icons/club.gif -2 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif)-2 /forums/images/icons/club.gif, everyone folds around to him and he surprisingly just limps in with Q /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . On 4th, I catch a club. He catches a blank and bets $1. I call. On 5th, I catch another club. He catches another blank and bets $2. I call. On 6th, he again appears to catch a nothing card. He bets $3 and I call. Going in to the river, I have a pair of 2's, 2-3-4-5 and four clubs. I catch a blank. He bets $3 with something like Q /forums/images/icons/spade.gif -9 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif -4 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif -6 /forums/images/icons/club.gif . I think for what seems like an eternity. Convinced he can beat a lowly pair of deuces, I fold. He flips over his hand and proudly shows how he bluffed me out with king high. I'm approaching full tilt mode now.

4. Don't remember the exact cards, but I made a flush on the river. He bets into me. I think "I finally got him!" and raise to $6. He promptly raises to $9 /forums/images/icons/frown.gif . He made a higher flush and had the ace of my suit in the hole and knew he had me. He asks to see my hand again. I overplayed my hand severly. Am I steaming? It's rare I get upest, but it happens once in a great while. Is this that once?

Anyway, on the very next hand I raised with split queens (the table must have really thought I was steaming, even though I was just getting a run of really good starting hands). A player had obviously made a straight. I had queens up, and hit my 3-outer in the river, winning the biggest pot of the day in the process. Luckily for me, I won that pot and avoided tilting the rest of my chips away. After that hand I played better and booked a pretty big win. But I came close to snapping. If it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone. I feel I have a pretty good control of my emotions. I frequently get drawn out on in 1-3, because everyone is constantly chasing. I have come to grips with the fact that this happens and never get too upset about it, but the other day was an exception.
I thought that only bad players had to deal with not tilting. Does anyone else out there still have problems with steaming? Not that I normally do, but now I'm concerned that it could possibly happen again. Any advice/questions/comments anyone has will be appreciated. Thanks for reading...

[MRBAA]

I don't think you should be mad about the beats -- that's just the cards. One way to look at this is that you were lucky to get good cards early, he was lucky to get good cards late in the hand. Overall, of course, this is unlucky for you because you lose money. But it's just random. As long as your money went in with the best of it, you shouldn't get upset. The asking to see your hand is another matter. I'd definitely have called the floor about this (calmly). I have heard that when people abuse this rule the privilege can be revoked. Basically it seems you played fine. Even the flush hand sounds more like bad luck than bad play.

[Andy B]

Everyone tilts. Everyone. Even Andy B. I don't think that any of what you describe would have set me off (I've seen enough of it), but no one, not even a Vulcan, has his emotions completely under control. If this guy is getting to you, just go to another table. John Feeney has some good stuff on tilt in his book.

Hand 3 would have been a good time to try a bluff raise, I think.

[DoctorK]

Guys like that make me mad, too... but they are predictable in that you **know** they will behave badly, so it's your job not to let him "win" by tilting you.

If you want to "get back" at him, here's one way to do it...

Sometimes, if a player is behaving in such a way as to annoy the whole table, you can kind of take a leadership approach in playing back at the guy, and have the whole table gunning for him. Little things like, before he asks to see your hand, flip your cards face up on the felt in front of him, and make a point of "since you always ask when we're heads up..." When the whole table is gunning for the guy, you'll have people calling down his bluffs, and it will make his plays less successful, all the while endearing yourself to the rest of the table.

Overall, though, I would just try to keep cool, and know that he can't keep sucking out forever (as you said, "keep calling with those deuces...")... or can he??? /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[34TheTruth34]

Hello all--

Thanks for the advice and suggestions. I really do appreciate the time you all took to respond. Andy B said

Everyone tilts. Everyone. Even Andy B

Ok, I feel better now, that's all I needed to hear /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Andy also brought up another good point:

John Feeney has some good stuff on tilt in his book.

BTW, just to clue in everyone who doesn't already know, John Feeney's book "Inside the Poker Mind" is absolutely excellent. It is a definite gem, and IMO, easily the most underrated book in poker literature today. Even if the parts about randomness are too long (everybody already knows that stuff /forums/images/icons/smile.gif )

In regards to the pair of deuces hand, I agree that a bluff raise would have been a good play. The reason is that although he would call with two pair, he was reasonable enough to fold all the one pair hands that beat me. I did actually realize this at the table, however, I realized it after I had been thinking for a while. It seemed that it was obvious that I had been thinking about whether or not my hand was good enough for a call (and not thinking about raising). A raise would have looked too suspicious. Thinking about it now, I realize that he clearly knew that's what I was thinking about. That's why he flipped his hand face up. He knew: a.) I threw away a better hand, b.) that it really pained me to throw away the hand, and probably also c.) that it would set me off to find out I did fold the winner.


Thanks again guys...

[SittingBull]

NOT on tilt. U were aggravated at your opponent,but U still played well.
Hence,I do not understand Y you believed U /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif were on tilt.
A real "tilter" plays inferior/junk hands a large % of the times.
Happy pokering,
Sitting Bull

[J'adoube]

Your opponent doesn't have the right to see your hand whenever he wants.

The reason anyone is allowed to see any hand is because of belief of collusion
not curiousity. I have seen the floor called and becasue one player had consistently
asked to see hands he was no longer able to do this.

[Andy B]

While the IWTSTH rule is intended to prevent collusion (despite the occasional rantings of a certain poster), the rule does not state that it can be invoked only when collusion is suspected. A player has the right to see any hand that's still in at the showdown. It's that simple. If he abuses that right, it might be taken away, as well it should.

[Tom D]

I see things a little differently. The rule is that all hands are shown down after the betting is complete, which is the “showdown” phase of the game. In practice, clever players break this rule, for obvious reasons, and usually, as a courtesy, other players don’t insist that the letter of the rule be followed.

Somehow, it seems to have gotten twisted, perhaps because it is perceived to be rude to ask to see a player’s hand. Poker, though, isn’t burdened with the responsibility to preserve the secret stratagems of players; it doesn’t care. If one wants to play poker, he has to play by the rules, which includes showing his hand at the end. When a player is asked to show his hand, he is being asked to adhere to the rules of the game.

Some card rooms are bending the rule to accommodate the whiners who complain about having to show down their hands, but I don’t like it a bit, personally.

Tom D