my first use of 3rd level thinking.... [Archive]

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Rev. Good Will

07-27-2005, 10:49 AM

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

I am 99% sure that BB is 2+2, I have ~100 hands on him, and he's a 18/8/1.7, and the SN is very, very similar to a 2+2'ers I see posting once in a while.

I didn't exactly "sup bro?" him, but I said something that might of tipped him off I know he's 2+2 in a previous hand

I also know this player multi's like I do, so I assume that this player also uses a stats program, probably PT like I do, and noticing I have a PFR of >8, knows that some of my PFR's are steals, open raising, and isolation raises. In short, this player is thinking, and aggressive.

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
5 folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

it was at the 3-bet before I thought about what does he think I'm doing here? I am quite sure that he's doing aggro blinds defence, so I cap... good move?

Flop: (8 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

not the greatest flop, but the semi-bluff on the OESD and BDFD doesn't seem that bad.
Turn: (5 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
 Hero...?

well... I guess that didn't work as planned, I think my chances of winning this hand UI are slim at best, whats the line from here?

Also, too laggy on previous streets?

GrunchCan

07-27-2005, 10:55 AM

Actually, I think your play so far is standard against any aggressive opponent. Most agg opponents will 3-bet on the BB in this spot if they play at all, becasue they want initiative on the button.

Against this opponent I'll often CR the turn to see how interested he really is. If he has nothing, he'll often fold. This is a very dangerous board for this play, however.

McGahee

07-27-2005, 10:57 AM

This is really not a good flop. Your "BDF & OESD's" are pretty weak, but I like your play up until now. If he has a K you're in trouble, but I think he's typically raising the flop if he does. Fire again on the turn. If he has an Ace - and there are a ton of different Aces he can have - he doesn't like his hand much either outside of AK/AQ.

bottomset

07-27-2005, 10:59 AM

I'd bet the turn here

everything to this point is standard, 99 is very good hand HU

PygmyHero

07-27-2005, 10:59 AM

Haha, I thought the villain in this post was me for a minute since I ran into you the other day and you were a seat or two away from me.

Anyway, it is not.

I hate to say this but I think HU OOP you have to give this up. I just don't think the BB can have any hand that you're ahead of right now. The flop call kind of looks like a slow play to me. You do still have the OESD but I'm worried about whether or not your outs may be counterfeited. Obviously if the BB has AK you're drawing dead.

I don't think the PF play was laggy - that's just a frightening flop.

I don't really like a check call on the turn because you still have to check fold the river UI and I can't overemphasize that I think sometimes you will hit a king and still lose (to his big ace).

Fantam

07-27-2005, 11:05 AM

Your preflop and flop play look fine to me.

With 5 bb in the pot, I dont think that you really want to fold on the turn with your pair and OESD. And I think if you check the turn, that there is a good chance that your opponent will bet if he has been calling with a pair or Kx for his own OESD.

So I would feel inclined to bet the turn as a continuation of my preflop and flop bets, and as a semi-bluff. Basically if I expect that I would have to call a bet if I checked, I would prefer to lead out and bet myself. I think its unlikely that your opponent will raise you on the turn after a blank fell, as he only checked behind on the flop.

On the river, I think that I would reluctantly check/call UI as the pot would be too big to fold to a possible bluff from something like Ax or Kx.

tiltaholic

07-27-2005, 11:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

I am 99% sure that BB is 2+2, I have ~100 hands on him, and he's a 18/8/1.7, and the SN is very, very similar to a 2+2'ers I see posting once in a while.

I didn't exactly "sup bro?" him, but I said something that might of tipped him off I know he's 2+2 in a previous hand

I also know this player multi's like I do, so I assume that this player also uses a stats program, probably PT like I do, and noticing I have a PFR of >8, knows that some of my PFR's are steals, open raising, and isolation raises. In short, this player is thinking, and aggressive.

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
5 folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

it was at the 3-bet before I thought about what does he think I'm doing here? I am quite sure that he's doing aggro blinds defence, so I cap... good move?

Flop: (8 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

not the greatest flop, but the semi-bluff on the OESD and BDFD doesn't seem that bad.
Turn: (5 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
 Hero...?

well... I guess that didn't work as planned, I think my chances of winning this hand UI are slim at best, whats the line from here?

Also, too laggy on previous streets?

[/ QUOTE ]

i suck at these hands:
i like it so far.

but i have no clue how to proceed..i think we have about 3-4 clean outs. and if he's decent, he's not folding to a turn bet w/a hand we beat. however checking the turn seems to lose us the pot.

i think i bet as the last $ that goes in UI. he very well could have a gutshot and will fold getting 6:1.

deception5

07-27-2005, 11:16 AM

I would be inclined to check/call here. You have 3-4 8 outs, maybe 1-2 K outs and around .5 9 out. You likely have enough outs to see the river and probably couldn't fold to a raise. I would reevaluate on the river based on what fell, probably checking a blank and maybe calling a bet hoping to catch a lower pocket pair or something like A9/K9.

Rev. Good Will

07-27-2005, 11:31 AM

wow, lots of conflicting responses so far... lets see how this goes

Turn: (5 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (7 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

Final Pot: 7 BB

yeah, I got scared at the end... looking back, maybe I might have tried the C/R line on the turn

I'm mostly lost about the river, I felt so lost, didn't think I would be able to win UI, so I checked it, flipping a coin to decide what to do for a bet.

McGahee

07-27-2005, 11:34 AM

I think you played it perfectly.
River seems like a clear check/call to me.

ellipse_87

07-27-2005, 12:26 PM

(grunch)

The thing about this hand is that there are 3 overcards on the flop and 6 of our 10 outs suck. A King gives us the ass-end, and a 9 has us losing to Kx.

With his aggression we can safely count on a turn raise, and, given the three overcards, we don't have the odds to bet and call down. (We'd need 27%).

benkath1

07-27-2005, 12:27 PM

I see nothing wrong with this hand. I'd keep firing. If he's defending with a lone A then why give him a free card? If he's matched the board HU I don't think he's just calling a flop bet. IF you get popped on the turn then you have to start thinking.

Can we see the rest of the hand?

string4

07-27-2005, 12:47 PM

*in the dark, critique welcome*

Unless if I'm developed a table image of a constant bluffer, I'm betting the turn here. You might need improvement to win, but it is a larger sized pot. 1.7 isn't what I would call terribly aggressive, so his call on the flop could either represent a smooth-calling slowplayed monster, or, (my best guess) he's drawing as cheap as possible since it is a larger pot. By betting on the turn, i can also get more information to direct what i'm gonna do on the river.