KJo howd i do?

[dantheman_05]

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (6 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP2 calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

I'm not sure why your raising pf???

other than that its a standard hand depending on reads... I'm not sure about the river bet -- your bet may get raised here.. something I think you'd rather not face... Worse hands definetly ARE calling (other kings, possible other jacks) but I'd still hate to get raised. again READS... but assumming they are typical opponents I DO like this bet.

[W. Deranged]

1. No real reason to raise pre-flop here. Without a specific read that MP2 is very, very loose, you do not rate to be that far ahead of his standard limping range. You are probably ahead of BB's random hand, but he will often call your raise so you don't gain much tactical advantage. You are out of position.

2. From the flop on you are fine. River value bet is good, because you'll get called in a three-handed pot by worse K's and hand's like J 10, etc. Against a standard player you should probably be prepared to fold the river as flushes, straights, and trips might be waiting to pop you on the river (and you are very unlikely to get raised off the best hand considering the board scariness), though many of these hands would have raised the turn and so I think it'd be a bit weak to assume you're not ahead here most of the time. Just based on the play of the hand BB seems to be pretty much of a calling station (I have a hard time thinking of any hand that his line would be correct with).

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure why your raising pf???

[/ QUOTE ]

he raised pre-flop because there is only 1 limper...a raise gives us a chance take control of the pot and get it heads up with a chance to steal the pot no matter what the flop with a single bet.

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
he raised pre-flop because there is only 1 limper...a raise gives us a chance take control of the pot and get it heads up with a chance to steal the pot no matter what the flop with a single bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
I want BB to be a weakie and likely to fold PF as well.

Dan - you really gotta start getting some reads in these posts.

[W. Deranged]

It is not obvious to me that in the given situation the amount of "control equity" you gain by raising pre-flop (namely the amount by which you increase your likelihood of taking down the pot with a single bet on the flop) is big enough to outweigh the costs of putting an extra bet with a hand that will not be way ahead against any standard range for MP2 out-of-position.

Obviously this is very dependent on our read of MP2; I assume he is a bit of a calling station considering he limped in in late-middle. This may indicate that villain will be slightly more likely to be ahead but also slightly less likely to take the pot down with a bet.

If we consider that the "cost of position" will be some meaningful fraction of a small bet, if BB is not particularly likely to fold here, the PFR does not rate to be significantly +EV (and may be -EV) here, though I think the issues at play are pretty subtle.

FWIW, if hero were on the button a raise here is nothing short of automatic.

[Fat Nicky]

A big problem here is no reads. I think is fallacious to peg an unknown player as a calling station just because he limped in pre-flop from MP2. He's just as likely to be weak/tight. As for the BB, we have no read. Yes, he could be the type of player that will call any raise from the BB, but he could also be the type of player that plays too tight from the BB. I'd rather give him the chance to fold than to give this unknown a free look at the flop.

[W. Deranged]

Agreed. Reads are everything here. My inclination is to peg players like MP2 as passive and probably loose based on no other information, but, frankly, what Nick or I assume is a totally moot point because the hero-in-question should have enough information to decide MP2's style based on his READ.

Ditto for BB. I, again, generally assume players play their big blind too loosely without other info, but, again, it's a moot point because our hero should have a read.

[lil']

This hand looks perfect.

The preflop raise is great against all but the tightest 5-10 limpers.

[Paxosmotic]

There's a lot of hands we could be behind on the river, and we may not be best &gt;50% of the time when we're called on the end. Is this the best place for a value bet?

[callmedonnie]

Other than the preflop raise, I play it the same.

[drewjustdrew]

[ QUOTE ]
There's a lot of hands we could be behind on the river, and we may not be best &gt;50% of the time when we're called on the end. Is this the best place for a value bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the river bet is bad unless the opponent is a tricky bluffer. You are more times than not going to have a better hand if he didn't raise the turn. With every draw already on the board, your only fear is a 9. Opponent likely has small pair, QJ or JT and will probably check behind, but may still call a bet.