'Donk' bet? wtf?

[golfboy7]

Hi all.

Been playing 1/2 almost exclusively for the entire 1st half of the year and have seen a trend this year that I didn't see much of last year.

I happened to be reading a post in the small stakes forum where a guy was talking about the move I will describe soon and the guy called it a 'donk' bet....hence the thread name...

It has come to my attention that many players at the low stakes NL games and the 1/2 limit games like to bet into the pre flop raiser on the flop almost every time no matter what the flop brings.

Can somebody explain the strategy behind this because when I flop something I'm raising these guys on the flop only to have them call and then bet into me again on the turn. When I don't flop anything I call the bet to see if the turn card brings something then I'm folding if it doesn't.

Am I playing this weak? Should I be playing the man more? This is internet poker so I can't really get any 'tells' or reads.

[Fantam]

Theres a lot more involved to Hold'em than just betting if the flop hits your hand, or calling to see the turn if you miss the flop.

If you have a drawing hand you need to consider things like comparing the odds of improving to a winning hand against both the current size of the pot and the size, which you expect it might become.

If you have a made hand you need to consider the range of hands your opponents are likely to hold and their relative strength compared to your own hand.

Also some of your hands will be a mixture between made and drawing hands and need to be evaluated accordingly.

In addition you need to consider the playing characteristics of your opponents, whether they are tight or loose, passive or agressive and so forth.

Some very good books to help with learning sound Hold'em play and tactics listed in order of advancing stages are:

Getting Started in Hold'Em - by Ed Miller.

Small Stakes Hold'Em - by Ed Miller & co-authors.

Weighing the Odds in Hold'Em Poker - by King Yao.

[jrz1972]

I think technically what you're describing (villain bets the flop, you raise, he calls, then villain leads the turn) is a "stop and go."

A "donk bet" is when villain checks the flop, calls your bet, and then he leads the turn.

(I'm not really an expert on the current internet lingo, so forgive me if I'm wrong about this).

A stop and go often shows a weak made hand (like TPNK) that doesn't want to get into a raising war on any street but which doesn't want to give any free cards. That's not always what villain has, of course, but it's a decent default read.

A donk bet is tougher to read, but at least in my experience it usually indicates a turned two pair if villain is predictable. If villain is tricky it could be all sorts of stuff (he picked up a flush draw or oesd, he paired up on the turn, he weird-played TP, he's just taking a shot at you, etc).

[Mroberts3]

I don't know if this is "correct," but it seems to work for me. I use the stop and go as a sort of slowplay/pot builder. Say I flop a set or a good two pair, or maybe Top pair with a flush or str8 draw. My goal is to build a nice pot for myself without giving free cards. On the flop it is a clear bet with these hands, a bet many players miss by simply checking and hoping others will bet for them. However, when someone raises you, it is often more profitable to call and hope for overcalls. In addition, you will often get more action by simply calling and then leading the turn that you would by 3 betting the flop. Since turn bets are double those on the flop, you can get more money in the pot without alerting your opponent to the strength of your hand with a 3 bet on the flop. That said, jrz is also totally right in his post, I am just adding on.
just my 2 cents.

p.s. Donk bets can work well in the same way, your opponent will often call you simply because he is so confused by your bet he doesn't know what to do. He doesn't want to raise for fear of a 3 bet, but does not want to fold his hand. Try this with a strong hand on a drawless board, it adds to the confusion when a blank falls /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[golfboy7]

Ok, I didn't know there was a distinction in 'names' between the two plays.

I understand now and I sometimes use the following play...

I'll make my flush on the turn after I have checked and called a bettor on the flop, then I'll only check and call the turn with my made hand. Leading out on the river is sort of confusing for him and will usually get me a call cause he doesn't know what to think.

If i had bet on the turn he may just fold there, or if i decide to check raise, he may fold there and I only get 1 big bet. Sure, sometimes he checks after me on the turn and I miss a big bet, but then I'll bet the river and usualy get a call because it looks like a bluff. I'd say % wise, i'll get no more bets after the turn card hits about 25% of the time, but I'll get 2 big bets about 60% of the time and only the turn big bet the other 15% of the time (when the opponent doesn't call my river lead out, but isntead just folds)

Sorry bout the grammar, I'm at work and have to type quickly, Damn Boss!)