Too deep to push?

[blockafor]

From last night's Stars $10+1:

Blinds are 100/200/25. Avg. stack is 7700. Hero has 7800. Villain has 4000.

Folded to villain in CO who opens for 600. Villain has been playing loose-aggressive and will most likely fire a continuation bet if I check to him on flop. No one has come over the top of his pf raises so I don't know what his tendency to lay down, call, or reraise would be if I come over the top. Button and SB fold and I have TT in the BB. Should I call or push? He has 3400 (17BB's) left. I want to slow this guy down a bit and prevent him from attacking my blinds, and I think a reraise to anything less will either be too small for him to fold or large enough that if he calls he'll be committed. Is 3400 too deep to push here?

[blockafor]

I bump.

[djshawk]

I would raise to about 1500. This should win the pot if he has trash but still leaves you plenty behind if he pushes.

[A_PLUS]

I would make it 1500, and call a push.

if he just calls, push the flop

[sekrah]

Huh? Why not just push then? I think Bet 1500 and calling a raise is very bad.

[blockafor]

My read on him is that he knows he's viewed as a LAG, and raising him 900 more isn't going to do anything other than make it more likely that he pushes a weaker hand since I think he'll view that raise to 1500 as a weak re-steal from a LAG. I think the chances of him folding for 900 more are about 10-20%.

[A_PLUS]

[ QUOTE ]
Huh? Why not just push then? I think Bet 1500 and calling a raise is very bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really have to back that up, if you want me to take it seriously


What hand is he going to push into a 1500 reraise that he is going to fold to a push? None that I am worried about. If he has JJ-AA, AK, maybe AQ pushing or taking my route wont matter.

If he has a marginal hand 55-99, AJ, etc. He may call deciding to take a flop. That is very good for me. If he decides to push, that is also good for me.

The point is, pushing forces him to fold exactly 0% of the hands that currently have us beat. A smaller raise allows him to make a mistake with a hand we are ahead of.

[djshawk]

If he was on a steal then he'd be left with 3400 so would have to call off an extra 1/3 of his stack. If he really didn't have a hand I think he'd give it up here.

If you are reraised all in then the chances are you are dead, even LAGs get dealt aces.

By betting 1500 you give him the chance to get away from the hand if he tells you he is beating you, and you have also given him the chance to get away if he doesn't have anything.

[A_PLUS]

[ QUOTE ]
My read on him is that he knows he's viewed as a LAG, and raising him 900 more isn't going to do anything other than make it more likely that he pushes a weaker hand since I think he'll view that raise to 1500 as a weak re-steal from a LAG. I think the chances of him folding for 900 more are about 10-20%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then raising 900 is quite possibly the perfect play

[A_PLUS]

Well, If he has two overcards, he will be beating you on the flop 1/3 of the time, would you rather bet then? Would you rather check, have him bet any overcard and fold?

Also, a reraise doesn't mean anything close to AA, and calling a push is an easy decision if you take this line.

[blockafor]

When I said "pushing a weaker hand", I meant hands like QJ, KJ, and other crap overs that he might push feeling that I'll fold to his re-re-raise. I want these crappy overcard hands to fold so I don't have to play out of position if overcards flop.

[hurlyburly]

I like this less than calling to see the flop. 1500 is too much to risk at this stage just to fold to a push. If hero had AT or AJ here, I agree. With a med PP like TT and a LAG, I want a shot at his whole stack.

I'm calling here and potting any single overcard, non-ace flop and checkraising all-in any undercard flop (or calling his push if he's been a total maniac).

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
From last night's Stars $10+1:

Blinds are 100/200/25. Avg. stack is 7700. Hero has 7800. Villain has 4000.

Folded to villain in CO who opens for 600. Villain has been playing loose-aggressive and will most likely fire a continuation bet if I check to him on flop. No one has come over the top of his pf raises so I don't know what his tendency to lay down, call, or reraise would be if I come over the top. Button and SB fold and I have TT in the BB. Should I call or push? He has 3400 (17BB's) left. I want to slow this guy down a bit and prevent him from attacking my blinds, and I think a reraise to anything less will either be too small for him to fold or large enough that if he calls he'll be committed. Is 3400 too deep to push here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I take Hurly's line here too.

[A_PLUS]

[ QUOTE ]
I like this less than calling to see the flop. 1500 is too much to risk at this stage just to fold to a push. If hero had AT or AJ here, I agree. With a med PP like TT and a LAG, I want a shot at his whole stack.

I'm calling here and potting any single overcard, non-ace flop and checkraising all-in any undercard flop (or calling his push if he's been a total maniac).

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a bad line. I still like the raise. If he wants to push on a coin flip, I dont hate it.

He is not going to have us beat enough on the flop not to get more money in this pot now

[hurlyburly]

I like your line of getting it all-in PF better, if he'll come along. I'd just be dissappointed if I let him off here for only 600 chip. More disappointed than if he sucks out on me, since I'd have plenty left to work with if I lose. Plus if the flop comes off really horrible, I'm saving the additional 900 chips.