View Full Version : I don't see any topics about ratboy's big laydown
I don't think I've ever seen anyone fold pocket queens pre-flop before. I've seen jacks, but not queens. I was amazed at that one.
donny5k
07-27-2005, 04:42 AM
If there's three raises in front of you, only play aces or kings is the typical rule. It's even in Harrington's book. Also, I've heard of people folding queens to just a raise and a big reraise in front of them before, correctly.
Python49
07-27-2005, 05:03 AM
no topics because it wasn't that hard of a laydown.
kasey2004
07-27-2005, 05:10 AM
Ya, I think this is a pretty standard laydown.
Difficult for newbs and maybe some experiance people even, but there was an opening raise - re-raise - all in. I think u only can call with aces against these opponents.
/images/graemlins/spade.gif Kasey /images/graemlins/spade.gif
Oh, I thought it was only 2 raises in front.
kasey2004
07-27-2005, 05:17 AM
well i think 9Ts opened (maybe limped) then The raise with KK and i think JJ pushed, however i might be slightly off.
/images/graemlins/spade.gif Kasey /images/graemlins/spade.gif
I still don't see how it's easy to lay down the 3rd best hand in that spot. How could you put one of them on KK or AA so confidently?
HamJam
07-27-2005, 05:23 AM
This isn't a Party freeroll. An open and a reraise may happen once in a while, but an open, a reraise and a re-reraise (all by different players) is very rare and 99% of the time one of them has the goods.
So was the first a limp or a raise? Seems important.
MicroBob
07-27-2005, 05:48 AM
it didn't have to be AA or KK either.
He has to believe that AK might be out there. Yeah...he would be getting 50/50 against that guy with a lot of extra money in the pot drawing much thinner.
But, for the most, you have to figure the chances that KK or AA are out there are high enough to warrant not taking a chance.
Were they 7 or 6 handed or so when this happened.
If he looking at 2 other players possibly getting eliminated (he doesn't know that JT is going to fold yet...it might be 4-handed if he calls)?
He's looking at a lot of money between 7th to 5th or even 6th to 4th I imagine.
But, mostly it was just pretty standard. Even Lon and Norm acknowledged that he made it VERY quickly.
I've made similar lay-downs on pokerstars FWIW.
Sometimes it turned out that the other guys had A4 vs. JJ...my QQ would have been good. But what can you do?
Other times it's KK vs. AA or AK or something.
Either way, I'm looking at two big stacks going nuts and I only have queens.
It's a good lay-down. But it's not the end-all-be-all of spectacular pre-flop lay-downs imo.
Lots of players would lay-down Q's there.
I thought Lindgren's laydown with QT on a board of KTxK against his Nick's 33 was far more interesting.
I didn't see the betting though so I'll be paying a bit more attention to that hand when I catch one of the 7 zillion re-runs.
sekrah
07-27-2005, 07:15 AM
Huh? I've seen people fold Kings preflop.
sekrah
07-27-2005, 07:17 AM
This isn't a party freeroll buddy. Pro's make standard lay downs with Q-Q all the time.
It's not difficult at all. If you think it was a difficult decision then you are not a good tournament poker player.
JimHammer
07-27-2005, 10:12 AM
Another reason to lay them down is one of the players is all-in. He stays out of the way and hopes the short stack gets eliminated. That way he moves up in the money.
FWIW, there's an example in TPFAP where it's the right play to lay down pocket aces.
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This isn't a party freeroll buddy.
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Wait, are you sure? I could've sworn that... oh wait, douchebag # 1 already made that observation. Thanks anyway though.
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If you think it was a difficult decision then you are not a good tournament poker player.
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Can't argue that, I always choke before the final table.
ggbman
07-27-2005, 03:06 PM
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This isn't a party freeroll buddy. Pro's make standard lay downs with Q-Q all the time.
It's not difficult at all. If you think it was a difficult decision then you are not a good tournament poker player.
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Lol i really don't know what it is with you. It's an impressive laydown that very good players can make. It's great that you know that, yet you feel the need to come in make dumb ass comments like, "If you think this is great laydown then you're not good at tournament poker." Jesus the guy made a post asking a question, why do you feel the need to be a dick?
DyessMan89
07-27-2005, 03:14 PM
I dont the laydown itself was that great, but I was impressed at how quickly he made it. Thats all.
Jackal
07-27-2005, 03:28 PM
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I still don't see how it's easy to lay down the 3rd best hand in that spot. How could you put one of them on KK or AA so confidently?
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3 raises in front of him and the third was an all-in so you know he can't be bluffing and likely has AA, KK or AK. Why get your money in at 50-50 or possibly 20-80. Add to that, one person might be eliminated and you go up in the money and it's pretty easy to lay QQ down.
Jedster
07-27-2005, 05:54 PM
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I still don't see how it's easy to lay down the 3rd best hand in that spot. How could you put one of them on KK or AA so confidently?
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I know this is threaded to death but I can say one thing for sure -- I've played about 100 live NLHE tournaments and I have never, ever seen someone call a third raise with QQ when it was good. In fact, I don't think I've seen it with KK. Part of the reason for this is that third raises are very rare -- usually because third raises only happen when a player has AA or KK. However, I have seen KK fold to a third raise (ironically, QQ called the third raise and made a set, though the KK would have made a bigger set...of course, as advertised, the third raiser had AA).
What is really interesting to me is that Stan Goldstein put in a third raise with JJ, and Lindgren called pretty quickly -- of course he was worried about AA, but you could tell that he thought there was a good chance Goldstein didn't have it; I think he had a read on Goldstein, judging by the A9 hand as well. (Yes, I know there is almost no chance Lindgren is laying down KK after putting in a 2nd raise, but my point is that I don't think he thought Goldstein had it.)
Eric Draven
07-27-2005, 08:36 PM
It's a hard hand to laydown, but not impossible. I've laid it down Pre-Flop at Stars 20+2 in similar situations. If there's a raise and a push it's likely that atleast one person has AA, KK, or AK and your a coin-flip at best.
3rdEye
07-27-2005, 09:00 PM
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I still don't see how it's easy to lay down the 3rd best hand in that spot. How could you put one of them on KK or AA so confidently?
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If you're going to play QQ in that spot, I think you have to have a VERY player-dependent read on the situation.
psyduck
07-27-2005, 09:40 PM
laying it down preflop in a 20+2? I'm sorry, but that's a bad laydown /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Eric Draven
07-27-2005, 09:52 PM
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laying it down preflop in a 20+2? I'm sorry, but that's a bad laydown /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
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Stars 20+2 are slightly harder than Party's 20+2's, agreed it's not a good thing to do often at that level, but similar situations to the one that happened it's not a HUGE lay down, though it can be hard. I don't think I've ever been wrong about it (Well one time the guy had AK, and a guy behind me had AK also, where an early position had folded pocket pair to the AK's push... but other than that...).
Mike Gallo
07-27-2005, 10:09 PM
Nicky faced a raise a reraise a three bet, and then action back to him.
If you heard he said, "one time". That meant he would have played exactly one hand. Pocket Aces. The Queens teased him, however he made the correct fold considering the preflop action before action got to him.
Why do you refer to him as "ratboy" because of his eyes? I think thats a bit tactless of you. Considering you do not even know Nicky.
lastchance
07-27-2005, 10:13 PM
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Nicky faced a raise a reraise a three bet, and then action back to him.
If you heard he said, "one time". That meant he would have played exactly one hand. Pocket Aces. The Queens teased him, however he made the correct fold considering the preflop action before action got to him.
Why do you refer to him as "ratboy" because of his eyes? I think thats a bit tactless of you. Considering you do not even know Nicky.
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He woulda laid down KK?
Are you sure about that? Easy for people to have AK or QQ here...
Python49
07-27-2005, 11:06 PM
wtf? im confused on how people think this was some kinda tough lay down. What on earth do you think someone has when raising all in after a raise then reraise... at the very least a coinflip which is the lesser likely scenario. Folding the QQ here is not hard at all :/
If it was so easy and not a big deal at all, why did he announce the laydown after he made it and "swear to god" that he had it after Edog questioned him? Why did he say that he felt like his chips were freebies after the pot since he "should be broke?" Why did the announcers comment on how it made him seem professional to them? Because it wasn't an "easy" laydown. Not for the average player anyway.
I'm proud of you guys for being so on top of the game, but there's no need to continually point it out post after post. Point taken.
technologic
07-28-2005, 12:10 AM
you my friend, obviously do not know phil hellmuth or,
how powerful he is.
bweiser8311962
07-28-2005, 12:21 AM
OK, everyone has pointed out the same thing: That the third raise - from Goldstein - had to be a hand bigger than QQ, so it was the right lay down. Obviously, Goldstein's raise was with JJ. The first raise was 9.10 suited.
The reason it is a good fold is because there are still two players to act after you if I'm not mistaken.
All this said, didn't Goldstein make the mistake?
Python49
07-28-2005, 01:18 AM
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If it was so easy and not a big deal at all, why did he announce the laydown after he made it and "swear to god" that he had it after Edog questioned him? Why did he say that he felt like his chips were freebies after the pot since he "should be broke?" Why did the announcers comment on how it made him seem professional to them? Because it wasn't an "easy" laydown. Not for the average player anyway.
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The announcers hype up alot of things in poker because to the average viewer it isn't too obvious. Did you fail to hear when erik lindgren said before calling "well lets see if you have what you're supposed to have".. meaning after 2 raises, to go all in there he'd need AA.
PukaPlaya
07-28-2005, 04:56 AM
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I don't think I've ever seen anyone fold pocket queens pre-flop before. I've seen jacks, but not queens. I was amazed at that one.
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First off.
Ratboy? Hmmm. Nice. You definitely win points with that one! Very original!
What games are you playing where it is unusual to fold QQ to an open, a raise, and an all in, before you act, and can I play? Unless of course your regular game is a Party freeroll.
You sir are either a moran or a jopke. Take your pick.
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First off.
Wahhh wahhh wahhhhhhhhhhh!
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Dude, shut the [censored] up. Nobody cares.
PukaPlaya
07-28-2005, 06:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First off.
Wahhh wahhh wahhhhhhhhhhh!
[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, shut the [censored] up. Nobody cares.
[/ QUOTE ]
And you replied because you don't care?
Rrriiiggghtt....
It was an easy routine laydown.
Ratboy? (http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=16986)
Please post your Hendon Mob DB link.
Thank you.
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