First Post: 20k hands at 1/2 and breaking even...What can I do?

This is my first post here but I have been lurking for awhile. I have been playing online poker for over a year. I started out with $100 at Pokerroom and ran it up to $200 playing 1/2 about a year ago. I ended up losing it after a few weeks of playing...I was pretty terrible back then.

I became more serious about a month or two ago. I have always been a gambler and have read MANY books on poker and other forms of casino gambling. I felt like I could beat the game, but coming from casino bonuses, I was mainly interested in the poker bonuses.

Here are my stats so far. I started out with .50/1 and was beating the game. However, I knew that my play wasnt very good and have been working to improve. I moved up to 1/2 because I definitely had the bankroll for it. Even though I think I'm playing better, my stats are basically break even over the course of this time.

Here they are: Besides the winrate and BB numbers, all of the rest of the stats are entirely 1/2.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9527/20kstats3ka.jpg

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2387/20kstats12yd.jpg

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/739/20kstats29vb.jpg
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6200/20kstats35cv.jpg

As you can see, I'm basically playing break even poker.

I know that I need to get my preflop raise up and I have been working on doing that. I feel like I have been raising alot more but the number has only improved by a little bit.

In addition, in the last two days, after re-reading SSHE, I went on an amazing run at Empire and won almost $200. I'm sure I was running extremely good but maybe I finally got some of the basics down.

In addition, I can't win at the other sites. I am down almost $150 at crypto's and $150 at absolute compared to being up over $400 at party skins. Not sure what is going on there.

I would appreciate any comments that the experienced posters might have. I have a few hands saved that I am planning to post here soon, but I would like some input on my stats. I think that it would help out greatly.

Thanks,

DrSues02

[baronzeus]

C/r more, steal more, and fold to river bets less.

[Perseus]

Get luckier postflop.

And raise more preflop.

And your VPIP doesn't really change as much as it should from early - late position.

And stop folding the river so much. 57% is like...crazy high.

For only playing a month or two breaking even is fantastic. Keep learning and post hands...good luck

Jon

[slavic]

Guess what, your stats don't look half bad. I'm a little looser in the game you play(well I would be I haven't played it in years), but the stats are solid. Your win percentage on the river is a little high, meaning you fold a shade too much but I doubt it's causing much of a loss in your BB per 100.

Now I know 20K hands seems like alot, however I have had runs of 60K hands were I was a significant loser in a game that I maintain a better than 1BB/hr win rate. Quite a few stats trend to reasonable numbers quite quickly but winrate takes forever to lock in.

Oh are you playing full games? For some reason you seem a little too aggressive yet you don't checkraise enough. THe later is not criminal, straight forward play tends to lead to more 3 bets.

[slavic]

Oh, one more thing, winning at .33BB per 100 is quite good, you are better than 90% of the players out there. If rake was less expensive you would in fact be closer to a 1.3 or 1.5 BB per 100 winner.

[stillbr]

Steal WAY more, fold the river less, fold on the flop more when you dont hit your hand.

Think about position. Your V$pip is similar across all positions.

[newbie123]

My stats are very similar to these. I beat .50/100 for about 4BB/100. However, when I moved up to 1/2 I am only winning at about 1BB/100. Any one have suggestions for gettin Preflop raise % higher and my folded to blind steal and attempt to steal is about the same as well any suggestions for improving these stats.

[Perseus]

[ QUOTE ]
Now I know 20K hands seems like alot, however I have had runs of 60K hands were I was a significant loser in a game that I maintain a better than 1BB/hr win rate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would like to see your graph of losing SIGNIFICANTLY over a 60k run where you beat the game in the long run for over 1bb/100.

But yes, 20k hands is statistically meaningless in terms of bb/100. Many posters can and have gone -.5bb/100 for 20k and then 2bb/100 for 20k

[slavic]

[ QUOTE ]
My stats are very similar to these. I beat .50/100 for about 4BB/100. However, when I moved up to 1/2 I am only winning at about 1BB/100. Any one have suggestions for gettin Preflop raise % higher and my folded to blind steal and attempt to steal is about the same as well any suggestions for improving these stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK to get raise % higher if you are first to open starting from MP on you need ot open raise, not limp, that should increase things a few points for most 1/2 players. As for defending you blinds it would be best to post hands that you question focused on blind defense, and also to search those types of discussions out in the forums.

At the 1/2 level you are being offered 3.5 : 1 on most blind defense situations so you havea good bit of room to defend, however reverse implide odds can be huge and you have to step carefully. The whole ordeal is painfull, but if you can play in such a way that you lose less than 1BB on average in the BB well then your winning aren't you?

[slavic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now I know 20K hands seems like alot, however I have had runs of 60K hands were I was a significant loser in a game that I maintain a better than 1BB/hr win rate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would like to see your graph of losing SIGNIFICANTLY over a 60k run where you beat the game in the long run for over 1bb/100.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I don't give money details, you'll just have to trust an anonymous internet poster.

[newbie123]

Do you guys open raise from MP with hands like 10 9s, J 10s, Q 9s, K 9s, and Axs. I open raise but tend not to with these sort of hands.

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/8466/a9nk.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5779/c1nv.jpg

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6567/b1gg.jpg

Comments?

DrSues02

Here are my stats from the last 3k hands at Party.
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/4426/party7ll.jpg

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/9281/party14yk.jpg
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/3076/party26jj.jpg

So I really don't understand what I am doing differently. I am raising a little bit more, but I am winning alot less on the showdown percentage. In fact, I'm barely winning above half of my showdowns. Compared to my other stats where I was winning around 57%, doesn't it seem like I would be running good on those stats because I was winning so much at the river?

Anyone else have any comments or suggestions?

DrSues02

[jba]

3k is meaningless

you are just getting lucky

yes you are losing less at showdown but that is only one factor

your WTSD and W$SD only show part of the picture... two events:

1- you have TPTK and bet all the way against a calling station who flips two pair, WTSD=100% W$SD=0% WR=-300BB/100

2- you have bottom set against a maniac who will cap with middle pair, this time he shows you top set, WTSD=100% W$SD=0% WR=-1000BB/100





aside from what other people have pointed out, I believe you are open limping on the button?? I don't understand how your PFR and raise first in on the button is so low.

[SoSo]

u have got to start check raising flops...those stats are the most worrying.

I don't find myself open limping from the button very much but I guess the stats show otherwise.

When everyone folds to you in the button, what kinds of hands do you raise with? This is what you mean by open limping in the button correct?

I think my problem in not check raising is due to the fact that if i flop a low set, I always find something wrong with the board that other opponents could have. Like if I hold 10's and flop a set, yet the board is 10 J K, I usually bet to "protect" my hand from someone who has an open ended straight draw.

How do I get away from this?

DrSues02

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't find myself open limping from the button very much but I guess the stats show otherwise.

When everyone folds to you in the button, what kinds of hands do you raise with? This is what you mean by open limping in the button correct?


[/ QUOTE ]

never open limp from LMP-LP, you should be going after blinds at that point

raising when everyone folds to me OTB depends highly on the type of players on the blinds, against typical 3/6 and 5/10 opponents I am raising hands like Q9o 76s 97s J8s 22. my PFR ranges from 7% UTG to 17% OTB, for a 10.5% avg. similarly my VPIP is 14-22% for a 19.5% avg. I think you are undervaluing position.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]

I think my problem in not check raising is due to the fact that if i flop a low set, I always find something wrong with the board that other opponents could have. Like if I hold 10's and flop a set, yet the board is 10 J K, I usually bet to "protect" my hand from someone who has an open ended straight draw.


[/ QUOTE ]

as far as this goes, study relative positon. there are good posts written on this, sorry I don't have links.

in this situation you presented, what was the preflop action? how is your relative position compared to others in the hand? c/r the flop is usually a matter of relative position.. the ideal situation isn't necessarily bottom set on a broadway flop -- in that case I am betting hoping for a raise.

here's what i mean by relative position. an ideal situation is something like you limp UTG with KJo, two MP limps, LP raises, blinds fold. flop comes J82. now you have perfect relative position to c/r the PFR and face the field with two cold.

another one you have 89s in the small blind, complete after four loosey goosey limpers, big blind raises, flop comes A67 with two of your suit. again you have perfect relative position on the PFR -- this time you want to trap the field for two bets warmly (rather than face two cold), so you c/r the PFR who is on your left this time.

a big key to the flop c/r is knowing where the bet is coming from. this is very difficult to do if you are the PFR (dont try it).

[EStreet20]

[ QUOTE ]
I think my problem in not check raising is due to the fact that if i flop a low set, I always find something wrong with the board that other opponents could have.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't talk yourself into thinking your opponetns always have "scary" hands. Their chances of having one are just as small as you having one when they flop a set. You're one of those players who is (I apologize to the ladies on this board but I've had a few beers and there's no better term) "cock shy". You have no confidence and always think "what if?????" This style will not only lead to a tiny win rate but could also lead to a loss overall. On top of that, in the example you give you say your opponent might have an OESD. Now think about this, will an opponent with an OESD at 1/2 fold to a bet made to protect your hand????? NO, and they are right in not folding. In fact, if your opponent is a good player he/she will bet an OESD, I know I will. Now if you check raise, you're getting more bets from you opponets WHEN YOU HAVE AN EDGE. That's most important to maximizing winrate.

Think about possible scenarios in this situation, listed in order from worst to best and not including everyone folding to you...

1. Your oppoenent makes a straight on the river and you lose. Oh well that's life and you got the max amounts of bets in with an edge. (Just promise us you won't make some shitty post whining about it.)

2. Your opponent makes the straight on the turn but you have a redraw to a full house. Not too bad, you only pay one bet on the turn and if you hit the boat you'll def get multiple bets on the river.

3. Your opponent doesn't improve but still has to chase the OESD due to odds, SWEET!!! Aren't you glad your C/R got those extra bets in on the flop??

4. You hit your boat on the turn, yet your opponent still has odds to chase the OESD and has no clue he's drawing dead. EVEN BETTER!!!

Your quote from above screams one thing at me, WEAK TIGHT!!!! You need to get more confident and push your edges more otherwise, no offense, you'll never be a winner.

Good luck,
Matt

Good advice and I think I am beginning to do this more. However, I always thought the definition of weak-tight was someone who is constantly check-calling and only raises with AA.

However, I understand that I still need to work on my position value. I 4 table at this level so I find myself just hitting the "call" button to save time and not paying attention as much to how many people have entered. I have been classifying MP as the same regardless of where I'm at within middle position instead of loosening up a bit if I am 2 off the button.

However, I still have trouble with stealing blinds. Does PT only count stealing blinds when everyone has folded to you in the button? What is your definition of blind stealing? If you hold J8o on the button, would you raise to blind steal? How about A3o? 78s?

It seems that I will lose many of these hands if I don't hit the flop and I will lose the raise.

I have very decent aggression numbers and am usually betting at the pot when I have a hand or at least a decent draw at a hand.

I still don't understand why my river aggression is higher than flop aggression because it seems to go against what others have. In fact, it is MUCH higher.

I have continued to play well at Empire and my BB has been slowly rising to .49/100.

DrSues02

[csuf_gambler]

[ QUOTE ]


here's what i mean by relative position. an ideal situation is something like you limp UTG with KJo, two MP limps, LP raises, blinds fold. flop comes J82. now you have perfect relative position to c/r the PFR and face the field with two cold.



[/ QUOTE ]

this is horrible. you should not be limping UTG with KJo

Well. I made another stab at Crypto sites and promptly lost 50BB in an hour and a half on 2 tables. Not sure what the diffrence is between there and party.

Still hammering the games on Empire but I've almost lost my entire deposit playing over at Poker Plex.

DrSues02

[Cosimo]

Crypto sites can be rock gardens. If you're gonna play there, play during European peak times and on the Euro tables if you can.

Check the Internet forum for comparative information on the sites.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


here's what i mean by relative position. an ideal situation is something like you limp UTG with KJo, two MP limps, LP raises, blinds fold. flop comes J82. now you have perfect relative position to c/r the PFR and face the field with two cold.



[/ QUOTE ]

this is horrible. you should not be limping UTG with KJo

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[Zetack]

Get rakeback. With the number of hands you're playing it'll add up quick and is like making .5 BB/100 more.

--Zetack

[666]

STEAL MORE BLINDS