Trying to play better on the bubble, but keep gettin this type of beat

[playtitleist]

First hand after players 5 and 6 went out.

Table Table 11724 (Real Money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: Hero (1695)
Seat 8: smallchips22 (1545)
Seat 9: bAd__Apple (1130)
Seat 10: tom441lbk (3630)
smallchips22 posts small blind (50)
bAd__Apple posts big blind (100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ As, 6s ]
tom441lbk folds.
Hero raises (325) to 325
smallchips22 calls (275)
bAd__Apple folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ks, 2h, 7s ]
smallchips22 bets (1220)
smallchips22 is all-In.
Hero calls (1220)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 7d ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 8c ]

Board: [ Ks 2h 7s 7d 8c ]

A bigger PF raise might have chased, but can't say for sure.

Any feedback?

[jeffraider]

1) Fold preflop. You have too many chips to push and not enough to make a raise comfortably. Just be patient, that 150 in the pot isn't worth nothing to you.

2) Fold on the flop. You're almost never ahead here, and the pot odds are poor.

3) This is not a "beat."

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Fold preflop. You have too many chips to push and not enough to make a raise comfortably. Just be patient, that 150 in the pot isn't worth nothing to you.

2) Fold on the flop. You're almost never ahead here, and the pot odds are poor.

3) This is not a "beat."

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are being too definite with your response. I don't really see a problem with raising from the button and would in fact do it myself. I wouldn't raise as much though. I'd make it 250 to go and I feel that make a big difference. I guess folding is fine too, but I'd raise. I'm a little more up in the air on the flop call. You have the nut draw and almost definitely an overcard. You may even be ahead of some stupid push or worse draw. I think with the overlay you can make the call, but a fold is reasonable too. I think I'd have to crunch the numbers, but it's close I believe.

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Fold preflop. You have too many chips to push and not enough to make a raise comfortably. Just be patient, that 150 in the pot isn't worth nothing to you.

2) Fold on the flop. You're almost never ahead here, and the pot odds are poor.

3) This is not a "beat."

[/ QUOTE ]
1) Ok, a good player pushes any 2 back into you here, forcing you to drop A6s. Still, I can't imagine how against normal people you don't raise A6s off the button.

2) You're getting 1.5:1 with effectively 11 outs. That's very close to good enough, I think.

3) Meh, stuff happens. You gotta play right.

What did the other guy have??

[jeffraider]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) Fold preflop. You have too many chips to push and not enough to make a raise comfortably. Just be patient, that 150 in the pot isn't worth nothing to you.

2) Fold on the flop. You're almost never ahead here, and the pot odds are poor.

3) This is not a "beat."

[/ QUOTE ]
1) Ok, a good player pushes any 2 back into you here, forcing you to drop A6s. Still, I can't imagine how against normal people you don't raise A6s off the button.

2) You're getting 1.5:1 with effectively 11 outs. That's very close to good enough, I think.

3) Meh, stuff happens. You gotta play right.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Yeah, I may be too tight in spots like these. Point taken!

2) 1.5:1 isn't close to enough, is it? If he has a K or a 7 you're a 2.3:1 dog in the hand. Why take a -EV gamble when you've got so many chips left to work with?

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) Fold preflop. You have too many chips to push and not enough to make a raise comfortably. Just be patient, that 150 in the pot isn't worth nothing to you.

2) Fold on the flop. You're almost never ahead here, and the pot odds are poor.

3) This is not a "beat."

[/ QUOTE ]
1) Ok, a good player pushes any 2 back into you here, forcing you to drop A6s. Still, I can't imagine how against normal people you don't raise A6s off the button.

2) You're getting 1.5:1 with effectively 11 outs. That's very close to good enough, I think.

3) Meh, stuff happens. You gotta play right.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Yeah, I may be too tight in spots like these. Point taken!

2) 1.5:1 isn't close to enough, is it? If he has a K or a 7 you're a 2.3:1 dog in the hand. Why take a -EV gamble when you've got so many chips left to work with?

[/ QUOTE ]
You missed the nut flush draw, I think. Still, tougher decision here.

[jeffraider]

Doh! Sorry, I must have screwed something up, you're right, a call here is +EV.

gg /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[playtitleist]

Thanks all. I think the call was the move to make too, and I thought so at the time (obviously).

Anyway, he had KQo which is a reasonable call PF.

Thanks for the healthy feedback. Gotta love 2+2.

[ChrisV]

The raise preflop looks OK, I think people saying otherwise are resulting... I would fold with a stack of say 1100 though. The call on the flop is also AOK. Something I don't think anyone's mentioned so far is that he could quite easily have a worse flush draw for that push, in which case your overlay is gigantic.

[curtains]

Most of the early responses were way too absolute. Poker is not that black and white, of course folding preflop is not the only way to play this hand. It's often the way "I" play the hand, but making a raise preflop is fine.

Also the comment made by someone who said that "any good player will move allin on you, forcing you to fold". I didn't realize the way to be good at poker was to just reraise allin everytime someone makes a non pot committing raise on the bubble. Poker isn't that simple. People call you sometimes with marginal hands and people have big hands sometimes. Is that how you play? Everytime someone raises to 3x the blind you just move allin because obviously they will fold?

[The Don]

Oh well... I play this the exact same way. Don't be results oriented.

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]

Most of the early responses were way too absolute. Poker is not that black and white, of course folding preflop is not the only way to play this hand. It's often the way "I" play the hand, but making a raise preflop is fine.

Also the comment made by someone who said that "any good player will move allin on you, forcing you to fold". I didn't realize the way to be good at poker was to just reraise allin everytime someone makes a non pot committing raise on the bubble. Poker isn't that simple. People call you sometimes with marginal hands and people have big hands sometimes. Is that how you play? Everytime someone raises to 3x the blind you just move allin because obviously they will fold?

[/ QUOTE ]
Based on the bubble structure, big stack can push over any laggy raise to t300 forcing you to fold. Of course, A6s isn't laggy, and no, I never make this move because I assume my opponents are donks, and they're not good enough to laydown AT in a clear bubble fold spot.

[11t]

You do realize you have a6s right?

I can see the raise preflop, but I refuse to believe calling off a 13xBB stack on the bubble on a draw is +EV.

[ChrisV]

[ QUOTE ]
Based on the bubble structure, big stack can push over any laggy raise to t300 forcing you to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, big stack is not in the hand, they were UTG. You *are* the big stack.

[ChrisV]

[ QUOTE ]
I can see the raise preflop, but I refuse to believe calling off a 13xBB stack on the bubble on a draw is +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, no, not if you are on a draw. If you know he has KQo, it's a fold (ICM: Minus 3% of the prize pool for a call). However, he may have a smaller flush draw, in which case your hand is huge. He may also be running some kind of misguided stop and go style thing, in which case you could have 17 outs or even be winning. It's almost impossible given the allin betout that he has a hand which you have less than 12 outs against (the exceptions are A7 and A2). I think it's just a call, but it is very close.

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Based on the bubble structure, big stack can push over any laggy raise to t300 forcing you to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, big stack is not in the hand, they were UTG. You *are* the big stack.

[/ QUOTE ]
ZZZ... Completely misread. My bad.