Questionable AK hand

[wheelz]

Villain is new to the table. Opinions?

PokerStars 15/30 Hold'em (3 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls.

Flop: (4.66 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (3.33 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.33 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 7.33 BB

[alta_chuttes]

the open limp 3 handed is fishy but also consistent with playable hands like a decent A, but maybe that's too generalized a read. I feel people limp strong and raise weak, so I wouldn't think 76 here or such here.

it seems you should be getting one more bet in postflop but u have to think he bets the river most of the time, so do you 3-bet the turn or let him bet the river? maybe this is a free showdown/semi-bluff with a 7 or a 6 but what 7 or 6 open limps the button?

Does a turn 3-bet let him get away when bluffing and cap when he has soemthing like A7/A6? maybe the former, definitely the latter _but_ with the 3-handed button limp and turn raise I'd expect him to have a worse ace most of the time so i'd 3-bet the turn I think.

[spydog]

This looks standard against an unknown. And....he's not unknown anymore. You will be making a note on this player saying one of the following:

-will bluff raise turn with nothing but won't bluff at river.
-will raise turn for free showdown with middle pair type hands
-will semi-bluff raise turn with a draw, but not bluff at river.
-will raise turn with pair+flush draw

EDIT: And also making a note on his openlimp from the button.

[Fianchetto]

Obviously folding is not an option, and I think your line is okay against an unknown, but I think a turn 3-bet should be considered especially if you have some opponent knowledge.

The open limp on the button 3-handed is strange, makes me think he is a donkey. Anything reasonable that has you beat (AQ, 77, 66) would likely have open raised preflop. I guess he could be slowplaying a monster like AA/QQ, but wouldn't he have come to life preflop and 3-bet?

I think his most likely hands are a weak ace, or a queen that wants to test you, followed by an ugly two pair like Q7/Q6/76.

I think it's close between calling down, and 3-betting the turn.

[etizzle]

3 bet it, as we can be fairly certain he doesnt have 66 77 QQ or AQ. Any other hand we are beating badly or are drawing fairly live to 6-8 outs.

edit: also, you probably dont want to post the river action in a hand like this. You might as well just post results.

[J. Sawyer]

It's good against unknown as others said.

[wheelz]

[ QUOTE ]
edit: also, you probably dont want to post the river action in a hand like this. You might as well just post results.

[/ QUOTE ]

I almost didn't, but I thought if I just put "Hero checks, ...." people would've figured it out anyway

[Danenania]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
edit: also, you probably dont want to post the river action in a hand like this. You might as well just post results.

[/ QUOTE ]

I almost didn't, but I thought if I just put "Hero checks, ...." people would've figured it out anyway

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the decision comes on the turn, so you could cut it off after you get raised.

[etizzle]

well its no big deal, but even if you had put 'hero checks,...' we wouldnt have known that he checked behind. Its always your pot when he checks.

[wheelz]

Maybe people would figure that out too?

alright fine, I believed in you all to be non-results oriented.

hey maybe i wanted to cr the river????

[wheelz]

[ QUOTE ]
-will raise turn for free showdown with middle pair type hands

[/ QUOTE ]

He had J7o. I regretted calling as soon as I did it (yeah before he checked the river), seems the consensus here is 3-bet as well.

[PokerBob]

ugh. he raised for a free showdown and got it. I'd say 3-bet the turn, but IMO you have to be willing to fold to a cap, and I suck so I can't. I think I play it the way you did.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's close between calling down, and 3-betting the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't a turn cap make you puke? Are you comfy folding it to an unknown here? I struggle with this.

[etizzle]

nah you dont have to fold to a cap. You have outs against the most probable of his range.

[Danenania]

I think he'll have too many collective outs against his capping range to fold to a cap.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
nah you dont have to fold to a cap. You have outs against the most probable of his range.

[/ QUOTE ]

3 by my math unless he is insane....not good odds

[Danenania]

Don't forget Q7 and Q6.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget Q7 and Q6.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, but, really? 76s I can maybe buy.....but I suppose A7 and A6 are reasonble and give us decent outs. i'm still puking if he caps and no one can stop me.

[Danenania]

Feel free to puke. Just don't fold. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Fianchetto]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't a turn cap make you puke? Are you comfy folding it to an unknown here? I struggle with this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against an unknown I'll be going to showdown. But yes I would not be happy to see a cap, though I'd still call down. He could do it with two pair, which we would have the odds to redraw against. Calling the river unimproved...well, at that point I fall into the "it's just one more bet.." and I'd payoff to at least get a read on this guy and his button limp plus the very small chance that he is crazy and our hand is good.

That's why I wouldn't say the OP made a mistake by just calling, since we don't know the oppponent yet. After we've seen him make that move with J7 though, I'm going to be 3-betting him a lot. And if we had that knowledge during the hand, it's an easy 3-bet.

[etizzle]

the guy is playing J7 here, as the results show, so he can realistically have any 2pair hand. His range if he caps the turn is 67, A6, A7, Q7, and Q6 followed by HEAVILY discounted 66 77 AQ AA.

If he caps we most likely have 8 outs. who open limps AQ 66 77 on the button?

[etizzle]

copycat

[Catt]

Haven't really thought it through, but how about stop n going the river? You avoid putting in 5 BBs if the turn gets capped or you 3-bet, lead and get raised on the river; you get the same 4 BBs in as you would by 3-betting and leading the river if he raises again on the river; and you get 3 BBs in if he just calls the river bet. In my experience guys who raise for a free showdown or semibluff raise have a harder time letting it go for one bet on the river closing the action than they do to a turn 3-bet.

[sfer]

Next time stop the action when you get raised on the turn; I think the river check-through will tend to bias opinions.

That said, I can't see Vehn not 3-betting the turn, especially 3-handed, and he is a limit poker god.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
the guy is playing J7 here.......... who open limps AQ 66 77 on the button?

[/ QUOTE ]

didn't you just answer your own question here?

[etizzle]

if he is agressive enough to raise the turn here he is raising 77 preflop. I play in this game quite a bit and there are very few open-limp-middle-pairs-from-the-button type morons, but a decent amount of guys that will limp in with trash.