JJ 4 limpers and 18BB in a real life Pot limit tournament.

[Frazz]

So just after the end of the rebuy period and I have 3600 chips in a £20+2R pot limit tournament. I have just been moved to a new table. I am one away from the button. Big blind is a very good player and I know noone else. I look down to see JJ. I have T3600 and am one of the shorter stacks at the table.


Blinds 100/200 last hand of level:- next level 200/400

250,000 chips in circulation - 45 players left 10 get paid
Utg limps
utg +1 limps
utg +3 limps
utg +4 limps
POT=1100
me?

Results later

[Runner Runner]

Push, and it's not close.

[Frazz]

Thank you.

Thats what I thought and raised pot SB calls allin and utg reraises he has me covered. The other limpers fold. Nightmare.

This is one of the worst cases I could have imagined.

I have T2000 left.

SB could have a large range of hands and can't eliminate me. But the utg raise points to aa kk or ak, maybe qq.

So now I am real trouble.

with T6000 now in the pot I am getting 3 to 1 on my cash. If I fold I will have 5 BB with the blinds having gone up and in a few hands time I will be the BB.

Is this an easy call?

[betgo]

You have to pot it. When you get limpraised by UTG, you have to call. You are getting 3-1 and you are a 4-1 dog if UTG really has a big pair. The limpraise is not going to make you fold, so UTG probably planned a limpraise and has QQ-AA or AQ-AK.

[locutus2002]

I think you can fold this. If he actually plays AK here then its a call if SB is loose.

I think your failure to push is pretty scary to the rest of the table (saving 2K), so I think UTG has an overpair to reraise. I hate to play with 10XBB going to 5XBB, but I think its your best chance.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think your failure to push is pretty scary to the rest of the table (saving 2K), so I think UTG has an overpair to reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a pot limit tournament, so he couldn't push.

[locutus2002]

OK, my mistake.

I still might fold it. Both SB and UTG have to have most of their hands in the range that dominates you.

[reecelights]

By your guesses about his range (and I agree AA, KK, or AK, QQ far less likely to limp-raise) He has 16 ways to have AK and 12 ways to have AA or KK, or 4-3 that you are ahead. He may also put you on a steal based on the large number of limpers and your position.

57% AK= 31 wins
42% AA or KK= 8 wins

Add QQ to the mix: 9-8 that he has an overpair
47% AK= 26 wins
53% AA, KK, QQ= 10 wins


You win 39% of the time (or 36% if you add QQ) here and are getting 3-1 (or 75-25) odds. This doesn't consider the possibilty that he put you on a bluff steal and is restealing (which is unlikely but possible). I think it is marginal in that avoiding a confrontation with the big stack is not bad strategy. Therefore, I'm not happy about it, and on average it looks like you're a 3-2 dog, but I think you have to call for a chance to be strong rather than limping into the final 10 players.

[betgo]

I think he is likely to be more than a 3-2 dog, since people are more likely to limpraise with AA or KK than AK. There is also some possibility UTG limped with TT or AJ or something and decided you might be stealing and he has the best hand.

You have to be more than a 3-1 dog on average to fold, so I still think it is a call.

[locutus2002]

I just don't see UTG reraising with AK after SB calls.

I wouldn't be surprised to see SB with a hand like AQ,AK.

I'm not suggesting limping into the money either, but I'd find a better place to put my 2K.

[JC_Saves]

I think this situation calls for an easy push the rest of your chips to the middle. I don't suspect AA-QQ from UTG really. Why limp to bring everyone into the pot?

With only 5bbs if you fold I would take my chances this hand. I think you are just as likely to see, AQ, AJ, KQ as any other combo of cards from UTG.

[locutus2002]

10XBB going to 5XBB.

It's pot limit so if UTG bets the pot, everyone gets to see the flop for fairly cheap.

[dmk]

Firstly, this is an example of how you can be creative in tournament play. JJ is a HUGE hand to pick up here. A good amount of time I'm potting w/ any 2, especially when you have position on anyone who might take a flop.

Once you get re-raised by the limper and its 3:1 back to you, you can't really think about folding. While its likely you're behind, do some quick math. If villian has AK/AQ only 15% of the time and AA/KK/QQ the others, then you should call! And this doesn't even take into consideration the times he hopes to isolate vs the SB w/ hands like TT/99 or even AJ. In my opinion, its an easy call.

I very strongly feel that an unknown will have AK at least 15% here...and sometimes much worse. You hate to fold and have SB/UTG show AK/TT or the like.

While you could easily (and quite likely) be on the rail after this hand, its a must call. If you had done it w/ any 2 like I suggested earlier you can obviously fold, but JJ is way too strong here.

[Frazz]

Again thank you all.

I called. UTG shows AKs. SB shows J7s (?). Which gives me around 40% UTG 40% and SB 20% for the main pot and 50/50 for the side. I was hoping for AK and AK giving me 60% in the main pot.

Unfortunately I was in the car 5 minutes later.

[BigStick_25]

I wouldnt feel bad about that play at all I would have also been in the car. I would have pushed trying to just pick up the pot right then but not really against a call just would hope the poker gods were with me to make the JJ hold up.