Is this a normal fold?

Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: tigger2tfn ( $800 )
Seat 2: HUDMAN ( $750 )
Seat 3: DarkEternal7 ( $800 )
Seat 4: barbar2 ( $800 )
Seat 5: desertmule ( $800 )
Seat 6: Blind_Al ( $800 )
Seat 7: COLTSBUS ( $800 )
Seat 8: carroll24 ( $790 )
Seat 9: HERO ( $785 )
Seat 10: K_Lab ( $875 )
Trny:14263737 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Qd Ad ]
>You have options at Table 11811 Table!.
tigger2tfn folds.
HUDMAN folds.
DarkEternal7 folds.
barbar2 folds.
desertmule calls [15].
Blind_Al folds.
COLTSBUS calls [15].
carroll24 folds.
HERO calls [5].
K_Lab checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, 2h, Ah ]
HERO bets [65].
K_Lab folds.
desertmule folds.
COLTSBUS calls [65].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
>You have options at Table 11811 Table!.
HERO bets [150].
>You have options at Table 11540 Table!.
COLTSBUS raises [300].
>You have options at Table 11540 Table!.
HERO folds.
COLTSBUS does not show cards.
COLTSBUS wins 640 chips

Do most of you fold this?
I knew I had him on the flop, but assumed he had a flush on turn, or at the LEAST Ace-2 pair...

[morgan180]

what buy-in??

$11 party

[bluewilde]

ugh, i honestly don't know if at this buy-in you can fold this. Villain could be on a better ace, a flush or two-pair, but he also plays a flush DRAW and AJ-Ax(if he's an idiot) this way. So I'll leave it up to someone else to offer analysis on whether or not you call. What I can say, as someone who is weary enough of AQ to muck it in early position, is that given only two limpers, you need to raise this preflop (60-80ish). There's too much preflop weakness not to push the strength of AQ here IMO.

[lastchance]

Since it's the Ah, I think I might make this laydown..

I think this is a very good spot to fold, considering your flop line of bet out. Based on your flop line, your turn line works here.

However, there are different flop lines here.

A check-raise could work very well.

You could check-call and lead most non-heart turns.

You could check-call and check-call down to get rid of draws, maybe throwing a value bet if the board doesn't get too scary at the end.

I think checking here is a very good decision.

[bluewilde]

What would a good amount be for a check raise?

[morgan180]

what about an overbet on the flop? i don't think you can check on the flop - isn't it a 'mortal sin' to give draws a free card?

i agree that at an 11 most people on the flush draw are going to call against the odds 99% of the time - but don't you still have to charge them so that they are definitely making a mistake by calling you?

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
what about an overbet on the flop? i don't think you can check on the flop - isn't it a 'mortal sin' to give draws a free card?

i agree that at an 11 most people on the flush draw are going to call against the odds 99% of the time - but don't you still have to charge them so that they are definitely making a mistake by calling you?

[/ QUOTE ]
A free card is bad, but if you can't fold this hand to a flush, I really like checking. Someone will bet here, and you can cut down on the implied odds.

Check-raise is based on size of Villain's bet and coldcallers. I'd make it from t90 to t200, more with callers.

Giving cards to the flush draw is ok when you lose less to a set or two pair, and make more against AT.

[morgan180]

[ QUOTE ]

Check-raise is based on size of Villain's bet and coldcallers. I'd make it from t90 to t200, more with callers.


[/ QUOTE ]

but does the c/r deter the hands you're worried about already? it just seems more expensive - especially if you're bet at. i'm not disagreeing with your line - just want to understand it more fully.

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Check-raise is based on size of Villain's bet and coldcallers. I'd make it from t90 to t200, more with callers.


[/ QUOTE ]

but does the c/r deter the hands you're worried about already? it just seems more expensive - especially if you're bet at. i'm not disagreeing with your line - just want to understand it more fully.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not about deterring the hands you're worried about. Villain is not folding AK, and there's no way two pair or a set is folding either.

But if you check-raise and get 3-bet, you can fold quite quickly. If you check-raise, you can force flush draw not to see the river by leading turn.

I was just listing off all the common ways to play a hand like this.

It's tough to come up with a good line here. Meh.

[morgan180]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Check-raise is based on size of Villain's bet and coldcallers. I'd make it from t90 to t200, more with callers.


[/ QUOTE ]

but does the c/r deter the hands you're worried about already? it just seems more expensive - especially if you're bet at. i'm not disagreeing with your line - just want to understand it more fully.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not about deterring the hands you're worried about. Villain is not folding AK, and there's no way two pair or a set is folding either.

But if you check-raise and get 3-bet, you can fold quite quickly. If you check-raise, you can force flush draw not to see the river by leading turn.

I was just listing off all the common ways to play a hand like this.

It's tough to come up with a good line here. Meh.

[/ QUOTE ]

i got ya - it definitely does a great job of defining your hand and where you stand.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
ugh, i honestly don't know if at this buy-in you can fold this. Villain could be on a better ace, a flush or two-pair, but he also plays a flush DRAW and AJ-Ax(if he's an idiot) this way. So I'll leave it up to someone else to offer analysis on whether or not you call. What I can say, as someone who is weary enough of AQ to muck it in early position, is that given only two limpers, you need to raise this preflop (60-80ish). There's too much preflop weakness not to push the strength of AQ here IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like to raise AQ from the blinds though, as you'll be acting first on the flop. From the button yes, raise by all means.