Alright, I'm finally going to take the high road... [Archive]

View Full Version : Alright, I'm finally going to take the high road...

baronzeus

07-25-2005, 04:42 PM

After starting out 6max incredibly hot for probably close to 40K hands, I have cooled off in a major way. I have had losing weeks at PP and Stars 6max games for 3 out of the last 4 weeks. Part of it is just me running bad after starting out hot (http://www.pokergrader.com/leaderboard.php) and part of it is that I just don't feel like I'm playing optimally.

I'm still a marginal winner at 5/10 6max overall and a good winner at 3/6 6max, and with rakeback I've made some decent bankroll money here, but being down 2K (partially as a result of a shot I took at 15/30 full) this month at various limits is a little much to me.

I really try to participate in the forums on a daily basis and have learned a lot, but all these losing sessions have made me somewhat weak tight and significantly more passive than I was playing when I was rolling. These are also not my only leaks.

I'm posting here to ask for any advice that you may have, and try to find a respected poster who is willing to coach me in 6max. Bankroll is not really an issue, but I need to get some confidence back in my game.

If no one has the time or willingness to coach, I'd like to send some recent hand histories (100 hands or so) to people in the forum to look at and just point out leaks. It will definitely help both of our games in the long run.

If anyone has any other thoughts, please respond. I'm curious as to what other people do to regain confidence in their game after long droughts.

Thanks for reading.

Entity

07-25-2005, 04:45 PM

Alobar coaches 6max. Contact him ASAP.

aslowjoe

07-25-2005, 05:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Re: Alright, I'm finally going to take the high road

[/ QUOTE ]

It is the only road to take. Losing is incredibly frustating, you can't do anything about suckouts and bad beats but you can always work to improve your game. Things will change.

PokerBob

07-25-2005, 05:37 PM

Is this your first big downswing at 6max? If so, it sounds like you are going through the same thing I went through a month ago. IMO you should keep posting hands. Eventually you will get to the point where the swings will not bother you all that much, as you will KNOW that you are playing well. There will always be some questionable situations that arise, but those situations typically don't make a huge difference. It sounds like you need a boost in confidence more than anything else. If you think a session or two with a coach will help, do it. You also may want to cut down the number of tables that you are playing for a while so you can really focus. Things will turn around. Good luck.

JrJordan

07-25-2005, 05:40 PM

No advice on coaching, but here's my thoughts from personal experience.

I have been, and frankly still am in the same boat as you. From April until early June I played 25k hands of break even poker at 5/10 6-max. I've realized since then it had more to do with my gradual transformation into an autopilot junkie playing 4 tables than any real bad luck. I've spent the second half of June and all of July so far breaking that habit. I now play only 2 tables and honestly, the difference is amazing. You can notice in a lot of the hands I post now that reads are much more detailed and my approaches are more "creative" (which can be a good or bad thing). I'm treating the money at this point as big bets instead of actual cash, which by itself doesn't seem like much but it's done wonders for my approach to the game. I'm excited again about developing as a poker player. Oh yeah, and I've been running around 2BB/100 since I started this (which is a big improvement to my overall rate). Yet, that number is just been a passing glance and not the main focus now.

This could be relevant to you if you're in the autopilot funk, or I could be way off base. In general though, the best way to break whaever funk you're in is to find the necessary change for you to focus again on play and not on money. This was the case for me and I'm still making small steps to improve. It looks like you are as well.

baronzeus

07-25-2005, 06:13 PM

*sigh* I was just going through every hand of my last session of 400 hands and found at least 10 hands with mistakes. I dont know why I played these like this, I certainly KNOW they are mistakes. Maybe it is psychological, or maybe I'm in over my head.

Don't bother reading unless you're bored

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, Button raises, SB 3-bets, Hero folds, Button calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Button calls.

River: (9 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (5 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, CO calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG raises, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP raises, Hero folds, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, MP folds.

Turn: (8 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets, UTG calls.

River: (10 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 6 BB

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero calls, MP folds.

River: (7 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 7 BB

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (6 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 6 BB

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, CO raises, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, Hero folds, UTG calls.

River: (9 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Just looking at these, if I had played like I KNOW how to play, I would have saved ~11BBs, but in reality, since decisions are usually marginal, it would probably be like 6 or 7BBs saved. It would have turned a -2.5BB session into a +4BB session. I lost about 2BBs on some other hands because of stupidity and this would have made it a +6BB session.

I know some mistakes are acceptable, but 2BB/100 hands worth is far too much for me right now. I'm gonna get back to reviewing hands.

aslowjoe

07-25-2005, 07:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, K.
UTG calls, 1 fold, CO raises, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4, T, 6 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 6 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, Hero folds, UTG calls.

River: (9 BB) Q (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, UTG calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure what you did wrong there.

sam h

07-25-2005, 07:04 PM

Hand 1 - Bet the river.
Hand 2 - Ok by me, some will say raise the flop but you won't lose button enough. Outs are potentially very dirty here.
Hand 3 - Player dependent, but I might call the river against some.
Hand 4 - Again player dependent on the river call, that queen was not a good card for you.
Hand 5 - I will fold this preflop to a lot of UTG raisers five handed.
Hand 6 - I would fold the river here against many players.
Hand 7 - Don't really like the flop 3-bet. If you are doing that, it should only be because you think opponent is likely to have total crap, in which case you need to call the river with ace high. I would probably just call flop, fold turn against most.
Hand 8 - I would fold the flop in this small pot.
Hand 9 - Bet the river
Hand 10 - Ok

Given what I've seen of your posts on this board, it seems like you have a good sense of strategy, especially for a relatively new player, but are having trouble executing with consistency. It's a mental thing, one that's probably more important to overcome right now than any sharpening of your strategic understanding. There are so many players out there who never get over this problem. I think everybody has their own path to solving it, but the common factors are always (a) playing completely within your roll and (b)trying to move beyond results. Somebody posted a while back about a patch that allowed you to cover up your own stack size. I think this is a fantastic idea for players working on becoming less results oriented.

baronzeus

07-25-2005, 07:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, K.
UTG calls, 1 fold, CO raises, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4, T, 6 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 6 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, Hero folds, UTG calls.

River: (9 BB) Q (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, UTG calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure what you did wrong there.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a horrible board to peel on /images/graemlins/frown.gif

JrJordan

07-25-2005, 07:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, K.
UTG calls, 1 fold, CO raises, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4, T, 6 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 6 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, Hero folds, UTG calls.

River: (9 BB) Q (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, UTG calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure what you did wrong there.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a horrible board to peel on /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting 10 or 11:1 with two overs and a back-door straight, it doesn't seem that horrible.

baronzeus

07-25-2005, 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Given what I've seen of your posts on this board, it seems like you ... are having trouble executing with consistency.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree.

I peel the flop too much, as you can see above, even when the flops are horribly coordinated. This along with not betting enough rivers is probably my biggest problem /images/graemlins/frown.gif

I'm probably going to two table 3/6 6max for a while and see how things go. If they don't shape up I'll take a long break.

bobman0330

07-25-2005, 10:33 PM

This exact same thing happened to me. For about 3 months, I ran way hotter than I had a right to at PS 3/6. Won tons, then went into a catastrophic reversal of fortune. Session after losing session after losing session.

Fortunately, I just play recreationally and to pay expenses, so I took a break, got a friend to stake me for a while, and focused on low-stress things like MTTs and stud. Perhaps not an option if you're serious about the game, but I still think it's great for stress to keep "fun poker" along with serious money poker.

Best of luck

Your Mom

07-25-2005, 10:57 PM

I didn't get past hand 1. You were a pussy on the river, plain and simple.

baronzeus

07-25-2005, 11:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't get past hand 1. You were a pussy on the river, plain and simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your input. I knew that, [censored]. Don't call me a pussy.

baronzeus

07-26-2005, 02:52 AM

Here are my graphs for this month. I don't know if it's normal.

The first huge $$$ downswing is from a 15/30 shot, the second one is when I had regained enough confidence to go back to 5/10 6max.

http://baronzeus.com/graphs.JPG

blackize

07-26-2005, 03:41 AM

In looking at a lot of those hands, it really looks as if you are overvaluing aces. Now you dont give any reads on those tables or an opponents so I can't be sure, but it looks like you are peeling too often with an Ace. In some of the cases your kicker was an under too so in effect youre probably drawing to 3 outs in most of those situations.

Here are my estimations of problems.

Hand 1- you know what you did wrong here. Bet the river.
Hand 2- I dont think AK high is good often enough to call down. If you really think it is, I think I like raising the turn and folding to a 3 bet much better than calling down. I especially dont call down with AK high when the 4 straight hits on the river.
Hand 3- Probably a good fold on the river, but probably should have been a fold on the turn. The flop call turn raise is almost always a sure sign youre done for.
Hand 4- Calling down with Ace high, I'm not a fan. Again I think you might be better served with a turn raise than calling down.
Hand 5- I'm not a fan of the cold call, but I like the flop fold.
Hand 6- Do you really think A9 is good 1 in 5 times here?
Hand 7- I can't figure out what I dont like about this one, but it sits poorly with me.
Hand 8- This one doesnt look too bad.
Hand 9- Again bet the river.
Hand10- Not too bad.

Someone please correct my thinking if I'm way off base here.

Snow

07-26-2005, 04:54 AM

Kiddo is also a good coach

Regards

Mig

07-26-2005, 07:16 AM

I think about the same as you. I don't peel when I only have 1 overcard to the board. I will bet if checked to tho and fold the turn if c/r on the flop.

Nietzsche

07-26-2005, 09:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, K.
UTG calls, 1 fold, CO raises, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4, T, 6 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 6 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, Hero folds, UTG calls.

River: (9 BB) Q (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, CO bets, SB calls, UTG calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure what you did wrong there.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a horrible board to peel on /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO this does not classify as a mistake compared to not betting the river in hand 1 and 9.