Would you make this call?

First time poster... played $100NL tourney on Party last night with 380 players. Down to the final 12 people (6 on each table) and I'm shortstacked. I'm in BB with $13K chips and blinds are $1K/$2K. BB in previous hand was eliminated so there is no small blind. Gets checked around to button who puts his $15K chips all-in. I'm staring at A7o and thought the guy was loose and could literally be playing any two cards. Payout structure is such that places 10-12 get around $350, $750 for ninth, $1000+ for 8th and $9500 for first. I decide to call and he flips over K8o. Two kings come on flop and you know the rest. He then doubles up and wins around $3K placing third while I collect my $350 and wonder what might have been.

I'm mostly a limit 5/10 cash player who is starting to play more tourneys. Was curious to know your thoughts on making that call. While it was "correct" in the sense that I was favored 60/40, perhaps it wasn't the best risk/reward situation. I'm probably 60/40 at best, dominated at worst, and my whole tourney is on the line. Would appreciate any insight.

Thanks,

Jeff

[qbler]

You have 4.5 BB left in your stack and a read on the pusher as someone who's likely pushing you with any 2. You probably need to double up at least twice to make some real noise at the final table. Unless you think in the next round or two around the table 2 people will drop and you'll be able to slide into the pay increase at 9th I make this call and don't think twice about it. Don't get too caught up in results oriented thinking (he outflopped you on this occasion). The call you made is profitable in the long run.

[illini43]

[ QUOTE ]
You probably need to double up at least twice to make some real noise at the final table. Unless you think in the next round or two around the table 2 people will drop and you'll be able to slide into the pay increase at 9th I make this call and don't think twice about it.

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Your read of the situation was correct and you win this pot more times than not.

[Pulplife]

Welcome to the forum! You will find that you get better responses to your hand if you don't post the results. Not to mention that often times you will get result oriented responses.

Give a clear set up, and leave it at "what would you do here?" So for your original post, leave it at:

[ QUOTE ]
First time poster... played $100NL tourney on Party last night with 380 players. Down to the final 12 people (6 on each table) and I'm shortstacked. I'm in BB with $13K chips and blinds are $1K/$2K. BB in previous hand was eliminated so there is no small blind. Gets checked around to button who puts his $15K chips all-in. I'm staring at A7o and thought the guy was loose and could literally be playing any two cards. Payout structure is such that places 10-12 get around $350, $750 for ninth, $1000+ for 8th and $9500 for first. What's your play?

Thanks,

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Then after some discussion, post the results.

BTW, the push was good.

Thanks for the feedback and advice on how to better prepare my post. I've been a lurker for a little while and I'm excited to finally participate in this forum. This year I plan to dedicate myself to improving my game, particularly tournament play in which I don't have much experience. I need to start using Pokertracker as well to find leaks in my cash game and think learning from this forum will help in both endeavors. And hopefully I can provide some insight to other players as well.

Jeff

[ QUOTE ]
First time poster... played $100NL tourney on Party last night with 380 players. Down to the final 12 people (6 on each table) and I'm shortstacked. I'm in BB with $13K chips and blinds are $1K/$2K. BB in previous hand was eliminated so there is no small blind. Gets checked around to button who puts his $15K chips all-in. I'm staring at A7o and thought the guy was loose and could literally be playing any two cards. Payout structure is such that places 10-12 get around $350, $750 for ninth, $1000+ for 8th and $9500 for first. I decide to call and he flips over K8o. Two kings come on flop and you know the rest. He then doubles up and wins around $3K placing third while I collect my $350 and wonder what might have been.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure how the other respondents felt about giving absolute go/no-go answers with such a minimum information set.

Instead, I prefer to answer questions with more questions.

Other questions I would have liked to see would be things like:
1) The players in 9th, 10th and 11th, what were their stack sizes relative to yours? Were they at the same table as you? If so, what were their positions relative to the other stacks?
- The reason I ask is that there is a pretty large difference between 9th place prize and 10th-12th place prizes. You have 2 or 3 more orbits before you are at risk for being blinded out. Perhaps it is worth it to be a bit more patient. Yeah, maybe you never get enough chips to challenge for 1st. But 9th pays a heck of a lot more than 10th-12th (triple).
2) Are you sure on the prize fund description?
- The reason I ask is that if you are playing to a 10 player final table, then usually 10th prize will be quite a bit higher. Or was it a 9 player final table?
3) Are you happy with getting all your chips in with A7o?
- If you fold and let the guy presumably steal the blind, then what have you risked? Very little?
- Plus, in the very next hand you go to the button in potential steal position, only with both the small and large blind to steal.
4) What are the possible hands that give you a lot of trouble here? What is the likelihood that your opponent holds any of them?
- Any bigger Ace or pair causes problems for you. So what are the chances that your opponent has them? Again, are you ready to risk the rest of your stack to find out?
5) You're getting 16-13 from the pot. What kinds of hands would your opponent have to be holding in order for your A7o to be an even money or better proposition? What it the likelihood that he would bet all in with anything less than that?
- You're a 3:2 favorite so in theory the call is okay with respect to the offered odds.
- But is it ok with everything considered?

My bottom line would be to be very uncomfortable with a call there. Easy to say in hindsight because I didn't see what your opponent was doing. But IMHO, it would have possibly been better to surrender without bloodshed and live to fight another day.

[Pulplife]

IMO this is bad advice.

If you fold with your A7o you will have 5.5BB playing 6 handed (an effective M of 2.2 if you are familiar with hoh2).

Your read on villian was that he would push here with any two cards and you are ahead of an average hand.

You have to make a stand with such a short stack. Waiting at a six handed table with 5BB when you have an A is just bad play. Your "better spot" is here...play it as you did.

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IMO this is bad advice.

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What advice? All I asked were more questions. My main point was that there wasn't enough information provided by the OP to make a complete decision.

What would the responses have been if the OP had not stated the stealer's hand and results?

[Pulplife]

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My bottom line would be to be very uncomfortable with a call there. Easy to say in hindsight because I didn't see what your opponent was doing. But IMHO, it would have possibly been better to surrender without bloodshed and live to fight another day.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was commenting on the last portion of your response. I have already posted my thoughts on surrendering in op's postion.

No offense meant, just disagree with your final thoughts.

[ QUOTE ]
No offense meant, just disagree with your final thoughts.

[/ QUOTE ]

None taken. It's an open forum and a free country. I like the exchange of ideas, regardless of right/wrong, difference of opinion, whatever.

[Pulplife]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO this is bad advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

What advice? All I asked were more questions. My main point was that there wasn't enough information provided by the OP to make a complete decision.

What would the responses have been if the OP had not stated the stealer's hand and results?

[/ QUOTE ]

Same...I agreee that posting results will invite result oriented replies, but in this case the call is fairly easy.