WPT Blind Structure?

[BusterFlush]

In an ESPN chat, Phil Gordon mentioned he does not plan to play the WPT events this year because of the blind structure. He stated his opinion is not unique and many "top" players are playing the WSOP events this year instead.
Does anybody know what is his concern?

[nuclear500]

Probably faster blind structure.

Most pro's don't like that, at least thats what I get from their comments.

[Army Eye]

Did you watch any of the final tables this past season? The blinds were astronomically high at all of them. The entire season was unbearable - one interminable episode of the players standing around, waiting for the streets to be slooooowly dealt, as Mike Sexton screams "Vince!!! He needs a jack or a ten to stay alive!! Or a seven or a queen to make a straight! Or two running heart to make a flush!! Or any spade that doesn't pair the board!!! Or any club that isn't a diamond!!!"

Even ignoring the impact on the TV show, it is sick that the players at the final table have to play under these conditions when each spot is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I hope the pros DO do something about it.

[Quicksilvre]

On the WPT, levels are usually 90 minutes long. Not bad, but when you're at the final table, they SHORTEN them to just 60 minutes long, which is ridiculous. There are also some pretty drastic jumps along the way--on the PPM the limits went from 80K-160K to 120K-240K to 200K-400K. The 100K-200K and 160K-320K levels that should have been there were not.

[captswifty]

Not only do they shorten the levels to 60 minutes, but they take loads of time waiting for the next card to come when someone is all in. AFAIK, they don't stop the timer when this is happening. If anything, they should lenghten it to make up for all the time TV production wastes.

[10-20Jerome]

It caters "ALL-IN" preflop, or if you call the bet preflop your usually commented to the pot so again your all-in. This makes good TV not good poker. There is no out playing your adversary on the later streets,ususally. Its benifits weaker players who cant make good decesions post flop. I for one played in 4 WPTs last year and the only one a cashed in I got short stacked early and started playing all-in on day two.........the whole day! If I played a pot I was all-in preflop. How can you make somme momo fold A-Jos after the flop when hes bet close to 1/2 his stack preflop /images/graemlins/confused.gif And the blinds give you no mercy either, patience =broke. Im going to have to thank partypoker for this style of play.

[OrangeKing]

I'm not sure if they still do this, but as of a couple seasons ago the blind structure for the final table was really strange. The blinds you were playing at up until the final table became completely irrelevant, and the remainder of the tournament was set at a blind structure based on the average stack size of the remaining players. The idea was that the average stack would be 40 BB at the beginning of televised play, no matter what the average stack was before then.

It's very stupid, because even if, for instance, Foxwoods wanted to create a structure where the blinds rose very slowly, we still wouldn't benefit from it on the TV table.

[McGahee]

[ QUOTE ]
The entire season was unbearable - one interminable episode of the players standing around, waiting for the streets to be slooooowly dealt, as Mike Sexton screams "Vince!!! He needs a jack or a ten to stay alive!! Or a seven or a queen to make a straight! Or two running heart to make a flush!! Or any spade that doesn't pair the board!!! Or any club that isn't a diamond!!!"


[/ QUOTE ]

That's one of the funniest things I've ever read, and so true to boot....
"or 4 running painted clubs for a royal, or one of Shana's 2 breasts!"

[Quicksilvre]

It's still a lot better than the uber-high blinds that you have now. I'd take 40BB to 15BB any day.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The entire season was unbearable - one interminable episode of the players standing around, waiting for the streets to be slooooowly dealt, as Mike Sexton screams "Vince!!! He needs a jack or a ten to stay alive!! Or a seven or a queen to make a straight! Or two running heart to make a flush!! Or any spade that doesn't pair the board!!! Or any club that isn't a diamond!!!"


[/ QUOTE ]

That's one of the funniest things I've ever read, and so true to boot....
"or 4 running painted clubs for a royal, or one of Shana's 2 breasts!"

[/ QUOTE ]

The funniest part is that it's so easy to actually picture Sexton screaming this word-for-word. Hillarious.

[tpir90036]

AFAIK they still do this. Once the TV table is set the blinds get rolled back to a pre-determined spot in relationship to the average stack to ensure a decent amount of play for the episode. Foxwoods posted the formula that was used last year on their info sheet for the World Poker Finals.

[Dr. StrangeloveX]

I wish the number was more like 200bb. And every hand was shown. I would pay good money to see that, if the players were excellent.

[Triumph36]

You'd spend your whole day watching that. 200BBs?

I did notice that there seemed to be higher blinds in this season of the WPT. I think some of the best play I can remember came with relatively deep stacks heads up - Kiril Gerasimov vs. Alan Goehring, and there was some other great heads up match - Hansen vs. someone that went on a long time.

[52s]

[ QUOTE ]
Foxwoods posted the formula that was used last year on their info sheet for the World Poker Finals.


[/ QUOTE ]

The formula, as mentioned, was that the blinds would start at a level where the average stack was 40BB, and this "new level" was quite a step up from whatever the level was when play ended to make the 6.

[Temp Hutter]

[ QUOTE ]
On the WPT, levels are usually 90 minutes long. Not bad, but when you're at the final table, they SHORTEN them to just 60 minutes long, which is ridiculous. There are also some pretty drastic jumps along the way--on the PPM the limits went from 80K-160K to 120K-240K to 200K-400K. The 100K-200K and 160K-320K levels that should have been there were not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its even worse than that - they shorten the levels to 30 minutes once you get heads up.

[sammysusar]

I think the first season the WPT just filmed whatever structure the host casino set up. After that though they implemented some standarized formula to try and make the shows last 4 - 6 hrs of filming time. so the first season might have the best structures.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the first season the WPT just filmed whatever structure the host casino set up. After that though they implemented some standarized formula to try and make the shows last 4 - 6 hrs of filming time. so the first season might have the best structures.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe they had Howard Lederer come up with the formula. Howard described his logic in an RGP thread. It was posted about the time of this (http://tinyurl.com/a65nm), but I couldn't find it (unless it is somewhere in the long thread). Use Google's advanced group search to find it if interested.

~ Rick

[Kevmath]

If you click on Rick's URL, then go to the beginning of that thread, you'll see Howard's original post that describes the reasons for the fast levels along the left hand side.

Kevin...

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
If you click on Rick's URL, then go to the beginning of that thread, you'll see Howard's original post that describes the reasons for the fast levels along the left hand side.

Kevin...

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Kev, enjoyed re-reading that post. The poker world needs more Howard Lederer's.

~ Rick

[tpir90036]

That's not entirely true... the new level is simply the new level...so the blinds might be rolled forward or backward depending on how long it takes to get down to 6. There have been occassions where the blinds had to be rollled backwards because they were very high by the time they got down to the TV table. DN talked about this in a few of his blog entires.