this is where i get lost.

[SCfuji]

1. What limit are you playing?

$22 STT on party

2. What are the blinds (and beginning chip structure)?

Level 5 75/150, 800 chips, 8000 in circulation.

3. How many players remaining?

4

4. What is your stack?

2265

5. What are the stacks of the remaining players and their position?

utg has 905
i have 2265 on the button
sb has 3585
bb has 1245

6. Where do you sit in relation to the blinds?

button

7. Do you have any table reads?

big stack cold calls a lot of 3x-4x bb raises but his reasonable post flop.

8. What has been the action before you?

utg folds

9. How many players remaining to act behind you?

2

10. Are there any relevant pot odds?

not now

11. Will you have position after the flop?

yes

12. Finally, what are your cards?

6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif

i dont like going all in with my 2k+ stack at this level. do i raise to 600 to indicate that i have a hand and fold if the big stack goes all in and the bb folds?

[11t]

I would just standard 3xbb raise and play a flop.

[Isura]

600 is way too big to raise preflop here. It's like announcing, "I have a decent hand, but I don't want to play a flop". I sometimes raise to 3bb, sometimes only 2.5bb. It's easier to get away from it if sb pushes, or the flop is really bad.

[tshort]

If big blind has been weak post flop then raising to 3x is a good idea. If big blind shows weakness post flop you can take down a big pot.

If your afraid he might be aggressive post flop, then you should push preflop.

[durron597]

If I'm the SB with these stack sizes, I'm probably pushing with any two cards if you make it 450 to go, unless I have reason to believe you are only raising with TT+.

So I would fold here.

[tshort]

I change my opinion to push pre-flop. If you raise to 600, the big blind basically has to go allin or fold. I wouldn't want any tough post flop decisions against the big stack in the SB. So, I would push to get SB out, pick up 300 chips, and make it a race for 3rd between 2 small stacks.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm the SB with these stack sizes, I'm probably pushing with any two cards if you make it 450 to go, unless I have reason to believe you are only raising with TT+.

So I would fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

But at the 20s, the typical big stack will be afraid of someone with only 1000 more chips, and he'll fold most of the time. I almost never get pushed back in this spot, and a 375 raise takes it down just as often as a 450-500 raise.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
I change my opinion to push pre-flop. If you raise to 600, the big blind basically has to go allin or fold. I wouldn't want any tough post flop decisions against the big stack in the SB. So, I would push to get SB out, pick up 300 chips, and make it a race for 3rd between 2 small stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think pushing in this spot is pretty marginal. I'd rather fold.

[flyingmoose]

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm the SB with these stack sizes, I'm probably pushing with any two cards if you make it 450 to go, unless I have reason to believe you are only raising with TT+.

So I would fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm small blind and there are two shortstacks, I'm pushing at a medium stack's raise, too. I think almost all twoplustwoers do it. I also think almost nobody who isn't a twoplustwoer does it. Unless he believes the SB to be a very good player, I don't think there's much risk of the SB doing this without a hand.

[SCfuji]

if we change the level to 6 and have the blinds at 100/200 does pushing become the best play?

[SCfuji]

i dont like pushing either.

[lastchance]

Villains are generally bad. Still, you need to be careful here, cuz good SB or BB's might push any 2 over the top of you.

I make it a t375, (not t450, saves chips overall) and play poker. I play 66 like TT here postflop (stab low card flops, fold the high card ones).

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Villains are generally bad. Still, you need to be careful here, cuz good SB or BB's might push any 2 over the top of you.

I make it a t375, (not t450, saves chips overall) and play poker. I play 66 like TT here postflop (stab low card flops, fold the high card ones).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have SnGPT, but I have to believe calling an SB push would be wrong here with 66 (but correct with TT). Thoughts?

[tshort]

I apologize, read through post to fast and thought blinds were 100/200. I wouldn't push with them at 75/150.

[SCfuji]

the small blind will call and see a flop more often than push over the top from the way he played the earlier levels.

although this is a much later stage so he might be playing differently.

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villains are generally bad. Still, you need to be careful here, cuz good SB or BB's might push any 2 over the top of you.

I make it a t375, (not t450, saves chips overall) and play poker. I play 66 like TT here postflop (stab low card flops, fold the high card ones).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have SnGPT, but I have to believe calling an SB push would be wrong here with 66 (but correct with TT). Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I just think your stack is big enough where pushing isn't great. And as long as you do this with AA-99, AK, and good hands, you should be able to stop Villain from pushing any 2, and catching some bad hands in there, and don't button steal too much either.

[jeffraider]

I'd just fold. You've got too many chips to push, and two few to really love raising or to making limping profitable. You're very comfortable here and you can afford to wait for the blinds to get bigger and use that stack in a way that is much more profitable.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
I make it a t375, (not t450, saves chips overall) and play poker. I play 66 like TT here postflop (stab low card flops, fold the high card ones).

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfect IMO. Raising to 375 accomplishes the same as raising higher, just in case the SB is frisky. If the BB doesn't have a hand, he will fold for 375 just as easily as he will for 450. If you put yourself in the position of the BB, he most likely (unless super aggresive) will not want to get involved w/o a real hand, since he would like to maintain his chip lead over shortstack.

IMO, this is one of the few times where the mini-raise is called for.

[skierdude1000]

It's pretty simple: make it 3x BB.... call a push

[jeffraider]

[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty simple: make it 3x BB.... call a push

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're planning on calling a push what's the point of making it 3xBB?

EDIT: I'm just thinking about this. Is your reasoning that some hands that you beat would fold to a push but push themselves if faced with a raise?

[SCfuji]

at the moment the only things i were thinking about were

im going to hate being reraised all in but its going to suck balls if the bb gets to keep his bb.

at the time i didnt know what to do so i folded - it was the safest route and if it was a mistake i didnt feel like it was a huge mistake.

somebody suggested the miniraise and i think that might be right up there with folding. i really hated throwing this hand away.