Newbie question -- what's the min you call with here?

[Grisgra]

It was a 2-table $30/3 tourney at Party (figured that this reallly isn't a "real" MTT).

Just combined to the final table of 10. I'm a shortish stack with 1400. Blinds are 50/100. Haven't been there long but the table seems tightish.

I open-raise in early-middle position with QJs for 400. Folded to the BB, who calls. Flop is T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, and the BB goes all-in for 1600 more (he's got me covered).

Given this massive overbet I put the guy on something like a small pocket or AT or maybe a flush draw, meaning that I'm actually a favorite here, with two overs and an OESD (and a backdoor flush draw). Given the size of the blinds, I hated folding . . . but I folded because to call an all-in on a draw, even a good draw, seemed fishy to me. But that overbet on the flop really smelled bad.

Good fold? What's the minimum you would call with here, given the vagaries of the Party game?

Also, bad open-raise? In HOH terms, my "M" was getting scarily low . . . about '10', so I upped the aggression a bit.

I would fold preflop given these circumstances.

Other than that, you can't call here. You simply don't have the pot odds to call, even though its a nice draw, its a losing proposition. Fold.

[11t]

Why the raise from EP with QJs to 4xbb?

You have chips and can find a better spot.

However I also would fold the flop, but I would call with any hand that I thought was ahead of his probable range of hands.

[skierdude1000]

Ya, throw this away preflop, especially from early

[pokerlaw]

Yeah, i would throw this away preflop. if you got reraised all in, i assume you would fold right? you said the table was tight, but still, QJ jsut isn't good enouh to raise 4X BB. wait.

if your suit was diamonds, i would call in a heartbeat, but i cant tell from your post...(if not diamonds, i fold)

[Grisgra]

Thanks, guys. Next time I dump QJs there. But nobody told me what the min is they'd need to call this monster overbet, or what it generally means. Would AT be sufficient? KT (assume you raised in late position)? A9? Doesn't this monster overbet typically represent a small pocket or a draw?

[scal78]

Forget for a second that we should have folded preflop. Just out of curiosity...let's say we have him on A-10 or a flush draw.

Let's say we have 6 outs for the Ks and 9s (eliminate the diamonds for the potential flush), and 4 more outs for the Js and Qs (let's assume hero doesn't have diamonds). That's 10 outs. Aren't we 1.5:1 if this is the range of hands we put him on? Pot is 1900, with it being 1000 for us to call, giving us 1.9:1 pot odds.

Am I reading this wrong? Just asking so I can read these situations better.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
Forget for a second that we should have folded preflop. Just out of curiosity...let's say we have him on A-10 or a flush draw.

Let's say we have 6 outs for the Ks and 9s (eliminate the diamonds for the potential flush), and 4 more outs for the Js and Qs (let's assume hero doesn't have diamonds). That's 10 outs. Aren't we 1.5:1 if this is the range of hands we put him on? Pot is 1900, with it being 1000 for us to call, giving us 1.9:1 pot odds.

Am I reading this wrong? Just asking so I can read these situations better.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I had had diamonds I wouldn't have posted the question /images/graemlins/smile.gif. With overs, OESD, and flush draw, I'm calling without hesitation.

As it was I think I probably had pot-odds to call, but because it was for all my chips, waiting for a better spot was superior.