hmm

[1800GAMBLER]

This hand annoyed the hell out of me.

Villian limps UTG+1. I limp [ 7d 9d Tc Qc ] in LMP. SB makes it $80. We both call.

** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, Js, 6h ]

Check. Check. I pot it for $317. Villian calls.

1. What do you think his hand range is here; seems extremely doubtful to be checking anything worthwhile here. So it's probably a hand very similar to mine?

** Dealing Turn ** [ 8h ]

Giving me more outs and completing nothing. Villian checked and i checked behind.

I have good equity here pretty much regardless of what happens and probably at least medium stealing equity if i pot it for $1k now. However i thought i'd have great value on my outs if i checked and hit and i'd like to have money on the river, looking back this doesn't seem to be true since it looks like he holds a draw too.

So i think my check here is a decent mistake, oh well.

** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]

He pots it for $951. I really really think he has nothing here. His flop checkcall and his river large value bet vs a weak player just scream draw but i'd be risking $2k for $2k and he'd be getting 4:1 on a river call. Just fold it?

Thanks.

[1800GAMBLER]

This hand has to be the most interesting out of the lot?

[RickyG]

um. Well you cant call here. At worst he has an ace high which kicks your ass. The time to bet was on the turn. You had approx 10000000 outs. in case he called, if you really thought he had nothing/weak draw, you really needed to bet it on the turn. I think you missed your best chance when you checked behind. If you really trust your read you can raise, but you have to be more than 50% sure about it here.

[bugstud]

I had one of those today too. Still folded. Problem is your river push looks very inconsistent with your play. If the villian is braindead or utterly blufdfing he may muck here.

[autobet]

Usually bet the turn.

your raise will work when you are right on your read, but he could have been going for a ch raise on the turn.

It's good you are thinking of this play, but probably best to fold and play the next hand.

[Big Dave D]

You must bet the turn. Certainly with this much money its a certainty. Sometimes in PLO you have to craft opportunties that mean you both still have money left to bet on the river if you miss.

gl

BDD

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes in PLO you have to craft opportunties that mean you both still have money left to bet on the river if you miss.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sentance is very important and should be read and thought about by those who bet the max at every opportunity.

[Phishy McFish]

I think this is important for me (sadly one of those pushers/rammer jammer types). I'm sure there is more to it, but is one value of creating this situation to have the ability to bet at a pot that both players "miss" their hands on??

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is important for me (sadly one of those pushers/rammer jammer types). I'm sure there is more to it, but is one value of creating this situation to have the ability to bet at a pot that both players "miss" their hands on??

[/ QUOTE ]

In the context Dave is speaking of it is important to leave yourself some bluff money on the river. In big stack cash games there is almost always some money left, but in typical 100x online games there is little or no river betting as everyone is all in prior to that.

The trick to pot limit play, if there is one, is that you are able to manipulate the odds you offer to your opponent. The "right bet" is often not the full pot.

Obvious examples of this are when bluffing you would like to choose the smallest bet size that will cause your opponent to fold, and when value betting the river you would like to choose the largest amount that your opponent will still call.

And the most important situation is what odds to offer your opponent with a made hand against his draw. With perfect knowledge of your opponents decision matrix and his hand you would find quickly that the pot size bet is rarely correct (of course, sometimes the correct bet size would be to overbet the pot).

The problem most players get themselves into is suddenly varying their betsize when they have no history of doing so. This small deviation from his standard play can make his hand suddenly very readable.

[Big Dave D]

As a collary to this, if you find yourself playing me in a short handed PLO game, which is pretty rare, you will find I make a ton of tiny bets. This is to achieve several things. To disguise when I have a good hand or a complete bluff or somewhere inbetween. But most importantly to "train" my foes to start to pass, or at least get a little worried, for little bets. In this way I can generate a game where every hand is not a thermonuclear explosion and we get to play through the streets a little. In a short handed game, if a player is only ever going to pot it and Im slowly chipping at him, he is going to find it very hard to win unless he gets lucky. Because every big pot he generates, I will be in good shape. And hopefully I can outplay him in the littler pots.

gl

Dave
Omaha Galore! (http://www.internetpokerpro.com)

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
As a collary to this, if you find yourself playing me in a short handed PLO game, which is pretty rare, you will find I make a ton of tiny bets. This is to achieve several things. To disguise when I have a good hand or a complete bluff or somewhere inbetween. But most importantly to "train" my foes to start to pass, or at least get a little worried, for little bets. In this way I can generate a game where every hand is not a thermonuclear explosion and we get to play through the streets a little. In a short handed game, if a player is only ever going to pot it and Im slowly chipping at him, he is going to find it very hard to win unless he gets lucky. Because every big pot he generates, I will be in good shape. And hopefully I can outplay him in the littler pots.

gl

Dave
Omaha Galore! (http://www.internetpokerpro.com)

[/ QUOTE ]

or just get better cards and better hands postflop and nuke everything to smithereens /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[TheRempel]

Yes!

This is the one play I have trouble with. Say it gets potted preflop by me or another player and I have something like AAxx. 3 or 4 callers and the flop comes 883. There are quite a few players who will lead out with very small bets here and it seems to work quite well to confuse and irritate people like me.

[Phishy McFish]

Now I think many players tend to overplay AAxx after a flop that should scare them.

While I admit to use perceieved implied odds to justify many of my bad PRE-flop calls (even flop calls with draws sometimes).....I find you can often crack a guy aces with a str8, weak flush or even a weak 2 pair hand and he'll still pay off with just the aces on the river.

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
Now I think many players tend to overplay AAxx after a flop that should scare them.

While I admit to use perceieved implied odds to justify many of my bad PRE-flop calls (even flop calls with draws sometimes).....I find you can often crack a guy aces with a str8, weak flush or even a weak 2 pair hand and he'll still pay off with just the aces on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

This is the 2nd step in learning to beat this game. The first being how to play AAxx yourself. 2nd is how to break them, and then comes everything else. . .

[Big Dave D]

I coined a catchphrase for this, DIYDDIYD...Dammned if you do, Damned if you dont. Basically the guy with AA ends up with a situation where he is either even money, a small to 6 to 4 dog, or a huge dog. These are not good spots. However, and surprisingly, sometimes these dumb plays are made right, EV wise, by the small stacks that are prevalent on the Internet cos they have already pot committed themselves by betting out with their missed AA. Many times I have passed an OK draw for a flop bet, not because I was worried so much by my foes hand, but rather that I knew I had no passing equity for a raise.

gl

dd

Poker Blog! Omaha Galore! (http://www.internetpokerpro.com)

[Phishy McFish]

Now the problem I have been working on now is how to properly deal with all the little fish, when I have a big stack. I tend to not buy in for less than half of the max.

1-2 (200 Max).....I buy in for 125-200

However, I notice that many tend to buy in for a ridiculously low amount and just wait for one hand (again AAxx for example) to get it all in and try to double, triple up with no stack behind them affter the flop.

I'm guessing for tem it allows them to not have anything to offer me on my drawing hands that want/need to see all 5 cards.

Personally I punish them usually by at least min. raising every hand and turning the 1-2 into a 2-4 at least.......making their stack size even smaller relatively and the time they have to wait for the hand less and less.

I prefer short handed as well as I am very aggressive.

Translated.....I am self aware I am loose and like to gamble too much so I at least try to find games that are better suited to my flaws.