Maybe this is an interesting hand??? [Archive]

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hurlyburly

07-24-2005, 10:08 PM

Just double checking, am I as clearly beaten in this hand as I told myself I was? Early, noone is out of line, villain seems square overall.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 (t2330)
MP1 (t955)
MP2 (t2840)
MP3 (t1630)
CO (t3755)
Button (t1570)
SB (t305)
BB (t3310)
Hero (t1930)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero raises to t150, 2 folds, MP2 calls t150, 5 folds.

Flop: (t375) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t200, MP2 raises to t600, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1175

TxSteve

07-24-2005, 10:11 PM

i definitely don't fold this one.

i've seen this move fairly often by hands you beat..ace worse kicker.

i suck at this game....but i don't like the fold

mts

07-24-2005, 10:13 PM

are you kidding me? weaaaaaaaaaaaak

hurlyburly

07-24-2005, 10:30 PM

What's weak? PF raise? Flop bet? I see him having at worst AK here, probably something better. I didn't ask, but I am sure I was beaten here just by the betting pattern.

It's also early enough that I don't feel the need to gamble here. Is that fundamentally wrong?

TxSteve

07-24-2005, 10:40 PM

so you're only gonna call raises with the near nuts?

rockythecat99

07-24-2005, 10:44 PM

This is horrible. If you are going to play this weak tight you should only play aces then. Seriously though he will have AJ-A2 more often here than AK. What flop would you want AQQ???

Pat Southern

07-24-2005, 10:47 PM

Remember that your opponents aren't world class players, I understand that against a very good player you're probably beat, but without an incredible read, I'd call and check raise the turn.

hurlyburly

07-24-2005, 10:52 PM

No, I think I misplayed the flop. This hand gave me the shivers. I thought I was behind when he called PF. Would AJ or A9 be a good fold here?

Glad i got good responses, here's the results of your advice:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1200 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t14999)
UTG (t20430)
UTG+1 (t44831)
MP1 (t75456)
MP2 (t19006)
CO (t7630)
Button (t12470)
Hero (t35332)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, MP1 raises to t2400, 3 folds, Hero raises to t6000, 1 fold, MP1 calls t3600.

Flop: (t12450) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t29257 (All-In), MP1 calls t29257.

Turn: (t70964) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t70964) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t70964

KyleM

07-24-2005, 11:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just double checking, am I as clearly beaten in this hand as I told myself I was? Early, noone is out of line, villain seems square overall.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 (t2330)
MP1 (t955)
MP2 (t2840)
MP3 (t1630)
CO (t3755)
Button (t1570)
SB (t305)
BB (t3310)
Hero (t1930)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero raises to t150, 2 folds, MP2 calls t150, 5 folds.

Flop: (t375) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t200, MP2 raises to t600, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1175

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm this is a really weird raise. You're raise pretty clearly puts you on an ace, so I think making this raise with AK, A7, or AT would be really dumb considering there is a possibility that you fold here with a hand that would almost definitely pay off a lot more. Same thing with a set, I dont understand why he would raise so much considering you a 2-outer at best to hit another ace. I'd almost have to put him on KK-JJ here, or AXs, though the raise has kinda got me confused. He's either making a play on you, or he knows he has you beat and is playing unconventionally so that it looks like he's trying to represent more than he has, even though he really has the hand. I'm probably calling here and firing out half the pot on the turn and folding to a raise. If he's making a move on you with a weaker hand, I can't see him raising the turn. Considering the raise you called on the flop, I can't see him raising you on the turn with anything that doesn't have you beat.

TxSteve

07-24-2005, 11:01 PM

i'm not sure anyone advised that

meaning...i'm not sure anyone advised open pushing on the flop with AQ on an AJx board

KyleM

07-24-2005, 11:09 PM

Why check-raise the turn? I'd probably bet the turn and fold to a raise. He'd have to be out of his mind to raise you on the turn with a hand weaker than AQ, considering the bet and call on the flop.

hurlyburly

07-24-2005, 11:09 PM

That's solid advice, but this is a freezeout, and my stack couldn't take the hit. I think I got into SnG mentality with my flop raise, but if I potted it and then he pushed, where am I? I'd definitely have to call that. This felt like an extraction bet.

hurlyburly

07-24-2005, 11:13 PM

Pot-to-stack ratio. I raised too much preflop, then made my hand. How's this a worse board HU than AT7?

If I was weak-tight before, how did I play this wrong? I'm not being sarcastic, I clearly made a mistake, and I'm not sure where.

Pat Southern

07-24-2005, 11:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why check-raise the turn? I'd probably bet the turn and fold to a raise. He'd have to be out of his mind to raise you on the turn with a hand weaker than AQ, considering the bet and call on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. A half sized pot bet will take you down to about 500, there's no way I can fold when I only have to call 500 more.

2. You're letting bluffs off just as easily by leading the turn than reraising the flop. Whats your reasoning for waiting till the turn to pop, if you're leading the turn?

hurlyburly

07-24-2005, 11:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
2. You're letting bluffs off just as easily by leading the turn than reraising the flop. Whats your reasoning for waiting till the turn to pop, if you're leading the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Where I had a problem was not knowing which cards were "safe" on the turn. If I catch a queen, did he just hit his gutshot? Seems like an 8-9 would be his most likely cards to make aces-up, but that's only when I'm ahead on the flop.

I think he had a much better hand for that flop and mistakenly let me off the hook by raising.

KyleM

07-24-2005, 11:24 PM

Hmmm yea I didn't realize that about your stack size - his raise puts you in a tough position. Considering the circumstances I don't think a fold is out of the question, though I think there are normally better options. Considering you have plenty of chips left if you fold its easy to wait for a better position if you are confident that you can outplay the other players.

hurlyburly

07-24-2005, 11:29 PM

I managed to do that for a while, but of course the hand that takes me down was AQo catching top pair... I posted it in earlier in this thread. Starting to see that OOP it's a really goddamn bad hand to play.

mts

07-25-2005, 12:20 AM

i'm confused now. This is a different situation entirely.

hurlyburly

07-25-2005, 12:45 AM

It isn't because I took the harder line on this one, instead of the softer, escapable line I took on the first hand. This is the 2nd time same tourny I ended up in a sticky spot with AQo OOP. Was my raise PF bad or the push?

Villain played every hand same post flop, he either pushed if he had a piece or checked behind. I was attempting to avoid confrontation by pushing, since he had very loose opening standards.

Looked like the same spot to me, I just played it hard. Is it an instafold PF against a loose raiser who's been showing to get very lucky in the 50 hands I've played with him?