Do I have a value bet here or not?

[SpaceAce]

Party $2/$4. Everyone in this hand is loose, fairly passive and not very good at poker as far as I can tell. I have KJs on the button and raise after UTG+1 and the cutoff both limp.

The flop is 237 with one of my suit. The first limper bets. That doesn't mean much to me, could be any pocket pair or any piece of the board. The cutoff calls and I call.

The turn is a red King. UTG+1 checks, the cutoff bets, I raise, UTG+1 fold and the cutoff calls.

The river is a total blank and the cutoff checks to me.

This feels like a really stupid question but it seems like every decision I've made for the last six months has been incorrect. Who bets here? While we're at it, who limps pre-flop, folds/raises the flop, folds/calls the turn, etc.

SpaceAce

[dantheman_05]

raise preflop. why not raise the flop for a free card on the turn if our oppoent is not agressive? i would raise the flop since i have a backdoor flush draw and two overs. the river is where i make most of my dough. you will make a ton of cash n the long run by value betting the river (even 2nd pair sometimes) against calling stations.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop. why not raise the flop for a free card on the turn if our oppoent is not agressive? i would raise the flop since i have a backdoor flush draw and two overs. the river is where i make most of my dough. you will make a ton of cash n the long run by value betting the river (even 2nd pair sometimes) against calling stations.

[/ QUOTE ]

He did raise preflop.

Raising the flop, while not terrible, is worse than just calling here.

Bet the river. Everytime. Don't even think about checking in this spot.

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop. why not raise the flop for a free card on the turn if our oppoent is not agressive? i would raise the flop since i have a backdoor flush draw and two overs. the river is where i make most of my dough. you will make a ton of cash n the long run by value betting the river (even 2nd pair sometimes) against calling stations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi, thanks for the reply. I did actually raise pre-flop. I think calling is better than raising on the flop but I am open to all arguments.

SpaceAce

[admiralfluff]

clearly correct decision on every street (including river value bet) and it's not even close.

[skidog222]

I think its a clear value bet

[dantheman_05]

all kinds of good things can happen when you raise the flop. free card, protect hand, make him think twice about betting into you next time, gain information.

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the river. Everytime. Don't even think about checking in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, Justin. In my heart, I knew that was the answer. I bet the river and lost to AK which is pretty much what I expected from the way things have been going this year. I just wanted to be sure that these bets are correct because I keep making them and I keep losing.

SpaceAce

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
all kinds of good things can happen when you raise the flop. free card, protect hand, make him think twice about betting into you next time, gain information.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could also go from a guarantee of seeing the turn for one bet to seeing it for three.

[SpaceAce]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. You're telling me exactly what I expected to hear which is: Bet. At least now I know I'm not actually getting it wrong 100% of the time, it just looks that way.

SpaceAce

[dantheman_05]

he said everyone is fairly passive, so if they 3 bet ...then we have gained valuable information...but mostly he will get the free card agaishnt these fish

[chesspain]

Value bet the river and then I can say "Perfectly played."

[cmwck]

Everything here looks completely standard.