PDA

View Full Version : Situation I always use a Stop n' Go in.....


The Don
07-24-2005, 03:27 AM
This, IMO, is the best spot for the Stop N' Go. You have little FE by coming over the top here and you also don't want to get blinded off by what is, in all likelihood, a weak holding (and a weak raise). I stop and go with any 2 cards in this spot.

#Game No : 2411265329
***** Hand History for Game 2411265329 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:14188644 Level:6 Blinds(100/200) - Saturday, July 23, 16:06:36 EDT 2005
Table Table 13943 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 4: Hero ( $1290 )
Seat 9: Doolio ( $3965 )
Seat 10: jduran1 ( $2745 )
Trny:14188644 Level:6
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 2c Kc ]
Doolio raises [400].
jduran1 folds.
Hero calls [200].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3s, 8c, 6h ]
Hero is all-In [890]
Doolio folds.
Hero does not show cards.
Hero wins 1790 chips
Game #2411267915 starts.

45suited
07-24-2005, 03:34 AM
Why stop-n-go? Me, I just fold, steal the next chance I get. Seems a little FPS to me. You don't seem desperate enough to have to do this.

Plus, villain is getting 2:1 to call your push and he'll still have enough chips to come back if he loses the hand.

07-24-2005, 05:15 AM
i wouldnt neccesarily always stop n go here or anything like that
sure you can fold or play this hand more normally if you want
but i do like the stop n go in this situation
good play

golfcchs
07-24-2005, 05:26 AM
I think this play is just okay because at this level you will get alot of calls with just ace high in my experience. Just wondering would you make this play out of the money say with 4 people left.

tjh
07-24-2005, 05:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You have little FE by coming over the top here

[/ QUOTE ]
That is what all the FPS players say. Prove it ! Show me hand histories where coming over the top is not effective. I want statistical proof of the effectiveness of the stop and go.
[ QUOTE ]
you also don't want to get blinded off by what is, in all likelihood, a weak holding (and a weak raise). I stop and go with any 2 cards in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you give this weak holding three free cards in exchange for your chance to make a fancy play. I do not see the benefit. Sure stop and go gives him a chance to fold one more time but 33% of the time they connect when they do you have a problem.

doggin
07-24-2005, 07:00 AM
The best part here is your stop and go worked! But in my sngs over at PokerRoom. if 90 percent of the players had
position on me (like Dolio had on you), and had you covered
in chip count 3 to 1, they'd come after you.
With your hand here, you really have to believe K high
is good.

I like a bit better cards to play a stop and go here,
keep in mind the suited cards only increase your chance
to win by about 2 percent.
But you're thinking about FE, a good thing.

Freudian
07-24-2005, 10:23 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Why stop-n-go? Me, I just fold, steal the next chance I get. Seems a little FPS to me. You don't seem desperate enough to have to do this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the low successrate the stop'n'go has is largely dependent on players only doing it when desperate. If you are going to do it do it before you enter desperation and you will find that villains fold rate goes up dramatically.

pokerlaw
07-24-2005, 11:24 AM
I like this IF I have a read on the guy that tells me that I would have some FE. I do this a lot as well...

45suited
07-24-2005, 11:27 AM
IMO, you really don't need to get this fancy at a 22. You feel like a god when it works, but nobody seems to post the rest of the times when they're caught with their pants down.

Again, you're not desperate in this spot. I don't see the need for it, but if it works for you, more power to you.

2callzU
07-24-2005, 11:35 AM
[ QUOTE ]
IMO, you really don't need to get this fancy at a 22. You feel like a god when it works, but nobody seems to post the rest of the times when they're caught with their pants down.

Again, you're not desperate in this spot. I don't see the need for it, but if it works for you, more power to you.

[/ QUOTE ] 45, let me ask you this as a side question. Would you like this play if there were 4 people left and he was the small stack facing an equal chip differential between him and his opponent in the hand? Just curious. Peace.

Freudian
07-24-2005, 11:51 AM
[ QUOTE ]
IMO, you really don't need to get this fancy at a 22.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really see a stop'n'go as a particularly fancy play. It is simple math. The flop will miss him 2/3 of the time.

Although I prefer to do it if someone limps instead minraises/standardraises. More chance he likes his hand as it is when he raises. And since the standardplay when someone limps with blinds like this is to push, I don't use the stop'n'go all that often. Nor do I think one should.

45suited
07-24-2005, 11:55 AM
[ QUOTE ]
45, let me ask you this as a side question. Would you like this play if there were 4 people left and he was the small stack facing an equal chip differential between him and his opponent in the hand? Just curious. Peace.

[/ QUOTE ]

So many of these posts are read dependent. I fairly confidently called a guy down yesterday with K high and had him beat because he was such a bluffer. His betting pattern made me fairly certain that he didn't have anything, but I didn't want to raise and make the pot bigger just in case.

To answer your question, I'd have to see the actual chip stacks I guess. If he still had as many BBs left as the OP in this hand, no, I would just fold and steal when I got the chance.

A play that I will make (rarely) is take the worst of a situation by re-raising all in or calling all-in (with high blinds) from the SB or button after an aggressive big stack raiser raises from EP. If I have cards that will play well (not be dominated) by a normal raising range like two big cards, I will make an isolation raise in order to get heads up. I do this rarely but it comes up when you're just languishing and getting blinded down. The bigstack has actually done me a favor by raising initially because he is scaring the blinds (who have to have a fairly comfortable chip position in order for me to do this). Once the blinds are added in to the equation, I feel like it's my chance to get right back into the game by taking the worst of a 40:60 flip.

Again, I don't even do this very often. I think that I have done 2 or 3 stop-n-gos in over 2000 SNGs. I'm not saying it's wrong, just not my style at all.

The Don
07-24-2005, 02:02 PM
Against a chronic min-raiser with this chipstack ITM this is defintely the best play from my experience. I am not willing to give up my blinds to a player like this. As Freudian said, he misses the flop 2/3 of the time and it is tough for some players to call with bottom pair. Normal players at the $22s don't think about pot odds and the possibilities of MY hand. They think about THEIR hand ("damn I only have A high, I can't call" type thing).

45suited
07-24-2005, 02:07 PM
Your OP didn't say anything about villain being a chronic mini-raiser.

tjh
07-24-2005, 02:31 PM
Is the "everyone misses a flop" 66% of the time actually correct ? A quick assessment of the situation points to that likely being the chance that they have a pair on the flop. Are the chances that they have a good draw on the flop worth considering ? Straight draws and flush draws, overcards.

I think we agree that a stop-and-go fails at least %33 of the time. I think the failure rate is slightly larger than that.

.... opinions ?

--
tjh

The Don
07-24-2005, 02:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Is the "everyone misses a flop" 66% of the time actually correct ? A quick assessment of the situation points to that likely being the chance that they have a pair on the flop. Are the chances that they have a good draw on the flop worth considering ? Straight draws and flush draws, overcards.

I think we agree that a stop-and-go fails at least %33 of the time. I think the failure rate is slightly larger than that.

.... opinions ?

--
tjh

[/ QUOTE ]


Draws are worth considering but the only thing I am worried about is the A high flush draw, otherwise I will have the best hand. You make a pair roughly 33% of the time.