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View Full Version : What I've learned as a LAG (6max)


RickyG
07-23-2005, 04:21 PM
I've played about 8k hands of 6max PLO $50. I know this isnt the highest of buy in games and the opposition is weak, but I still hope this is useful. My win rate is currently doing pretty well (in the 20bb/100 range) and I am having a blast. I am playing a very loose agressive style, which is different from what I play full ring, where I am usually nut peddling.

1) Players are very timid. They constantly see monsters under their beds and this is easy to take advantage of.

2) When you are playing crazy, players who are otherwise good, have a tendency to play stupid. Most people don't know what to do against the LAG.
3) You get dealt more bad beats when people dont believe your bets. Many people will raise/call with weak hands/draws and therefore hit bullshit draws more often (I know the percentages are the same, but when people are calling you with 4 outers 40% of the time instead of 10% of the time, you get drawn out of more times per 100 hands). Also, your hands are often weaker and easier to get drawn out on.
4) Being LAggy is FUN! 1 or 2 tables of LAG play are 10 times more fun than 8 tables of nut peddling.
5) Swings are CRAZY. Being LAG can seriously affect your psyche. Where before a 4 buyin swing in one day was rare, now I come to expect it. It can make you doubt yourself alot more when you are 6 buyins in the hole wondering if you are just another lucky [censored]. Poker Tracker helps with this.
6) You learn ALOT more about your opponents if you are involved in 70% of the pots with them. This style forces you to pay attention to what others are doing, because so much of it depends on taking advantage of their weaknesses. Also, if you know your opponents very well, the cards you hold dont matter as much. For me it is easier to know what an opponent is holding when I play LAG than when I dont.
7) You get paid off MUCH Bigger on your big hands, but lose a bit more on your weak hands. Opponenets dont seem to realize that you may bet and even call a raise, but you don't reraise without something good, or a good read.
8) You will get called an idiot alot more often. LAG is rarely the way to make friends (unless you are on a downswing). People dont like you, and often you feel like everyone at the table is out to screw you over specifically. This can however work in your favor if you recognize it and change gears.
9) You get the chance to Check behind on a weak draw more often. Like the flop semibluff in limit holdem, being a LAGgy player trains your opponents into believing you are going to bet every time, which allows you to get more of your fair share of free cards when in position.
10) Inducing bluffs when out of position is alot easier and very profitable.
11) You are constantly in dificult situations (see #4). LAG Play is like trial by fire. If you are paying attention to your opponents (see #6) you should be able to get out of these situations. Knowledge of Math and probabilities is imperative. (Science of Poker is a great book for this).


Overall, these are the main things I've noticed about being LAG. Please feel free to make comments, corrections, etc. I know I barely have 8k hands and this is hardly a big enough sample to know that this is more than just a good run of cards, but I feel pretty confident. It is also for 6max, where more aggressive strategy is a must. But anyway, I hope someone enjoys this post. If you did, please let me know.

abscr
07-23-2005, 06:06 PM
Can I get your username and where you play so I know where to avoid?

Thanks for the read. Well done.

RickyG
07-23-2005, 06:41 PM
haha, look through my old posts. You'll find one of them.

krypto
07-23-2005, 08:31 PM
Ok I'm a dope... What's a LAG?

Thanks
K

Quicksilvre
07-23-2005, 09:05 PM
Loose and Agressive, if I'm not mistaken.

RickyG
07-23-2005, 10:05 PM
you're not.

beset7
07-24-2005, 01:36 AM
nicepost.

joewatch
07-24-2005, 03:29 AM
Don't know about you, but if I wanted to play LAG, I would go back to NLHE. I experimented with LAG play and won big - sometimes as much as 100 bb/hr. But after a while I couldn't stomach the variance. You will pick up many more medium size pots when you are always raising small-suited connectors, KTo, etc because it's much harder for players to hit the flop than in Omaha. You can put yourself all-in a lot more often. Also, you can put a lot more pressure on people to fold when you have garbage since you can overbet the pot preflop.

I do not think the best PLO players in the world, like Rafi Amit, are LAG players, but I do believe that many of the top NLHE players such as Gus Hansen, Doyle Brunson when he was in his prime, Greg Raymer, Phil Ivey are all LAG players.

Here's an example of a NLHE LAG play I put on a lot:

Raise w/ 43s, called by 1 player in late position.

Flop comes 445. I bet, villain raises, I reraise all-in, villain calls.

Result: Hero wins w/ trip 4's, villain has AA

But once in a while, hero has trip 4's, villain has 55 for 5's full.

Or (of course) villain has KK, spikes K on the river.

By raising preflop and isolating heads-up in NLHE, you are going to win the pot 75% of the time when you make your continuation bet because 75% of the time, the flop villain's hand.

They say that PLO full ring game has a lot more variance than NLHE. I can imagine the PLO 6-max must have even MORE variance. If that's your idea of fun ... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

For me, I'm happy to keep plugging away at the full ring games and being a consistent winner.

beset7
07-24-2005, 04:51 AM
I've found the best mix at most tables (and I think your post should really be ammended to include table selection issues. Playing LAG is pointless against 5 other LAGS. Just sit back and wait to get paid) is LAG preflop and TAG postflop. Especially in position. But even then I play like a tightwad nut puddler in the blinds and UTG unless a pfr will buy me position.

Lafortezza
07-24-2005, 07:23 AM
Have you any numbers from your (more nut peddling) full ring games to compare to the six max tables? I nut peddle generally to make profit, any time I've tried 6max tables I've been pretty break even.

RickyG
07-24-2005, 10:26 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Have you any numbers from your (more nut peddling) full ring games to compare to the six max tables?

[/ QUOTE ]

WIthout giving away too much info
$50 &25 Full ring: VPIP: 25 bb/100: 9.8 (~15k hands)
$50 6max VPIP: 66 bb/100: 14-24 (this number is wierd becuase of variance)

07-25-2005, 02:11 PM
Short handed, I definately think LAG is definately way to go. Your post pretty much explains why. Im thinking that if you your playing 3-4 tables you should turn it down a bit just because playing in this style often requires a good read on your opponents.

RickyG
07-26-2005, 03:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I do not think the best PLO players in the world, like Rafi Amit, are LAG players

[/ QUOTE ]

What about Stuart Reuben (I dont actually know much about him), but a truely great LAG is Robert Williamson III.

I think that most Good players are Tight-Aggressive, but most great players are Loose-Aggressive. the Problem is that there is a small difference between being a good Loose-Agressive player, and a bad losing player.

beset7
07-26-2005, 07:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do not think the best PLO players in the world, like Rafi Amit, are LAG players

[/ QUOTE ]

What about Stuart Reuben (I dont actually know much about him), but a truely great LAG is Robert Williamson III.

I think that most Good players are Tight-Aggressive, but most great players are Loose-Aggressive. the Problem is that there is a small difference between being a good Loose-Agressive player, and a bad losing player.

[/ QUOTE ]

As has been mentioned many times before, but I must repeat because I learned it the hard way:

Rueben and others can play that way because of game conditions. Namely (1) they play with the same people day in and day out and are very familar with how the react in specific situations (2) the stacks are very very deep.

If these two conditions are absent (i.e. your average online game) playing LAG postflop is like sending a telegram to the seductive Ms. Variance.

But if you play g00t then rock on. Like I said earlier I believe in LAG preflop and TAG postflop when it comes to online play; and always mix it up.

PorscheNGuns
07-26-2005, 07:18 PM
Good post

My two biggest turnoffs for the 6maxers are two things that you mentioned: the swings, and the fact that you have to pay much closer attention to each individual player.

-Matt

Big Dave D
07-26-2005, 08:00 PM
It depends on what you mean by LAG. Rafi has a huge amount of gamble in him, especially when it comes to reraising preflop and drawing from the flop. But he doesnt play a lot of hands. All the best players on Stars, with one exception, play sub 40% VPIP in a ring game, normally 35 ish.

A fixation on preflop hand values is more of a holdem thing...im not sure LAG can even be applied to PLO in a strict sense.

gl

Dave

Omaha Galore! (http://www.internetpokerpro.com)