how much would you pay to have a pro look at your summary?

[SCfuji]

ive been PMing some players about tournament summary reviews and want to figure out some sort of "fair" market value for each hand history.

how much would you pay to have somebody review an entire hand history?

[JayKon]

$0.00 is less than $25 isn't it?

[tech]

Dude, pretty sure you can get some good players to do this for free.

For the person that voted $100 per HH, send me a PM ... I think we can work something out. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[SCfuji]

i dont want them to do it for free. i believe its a service that should be rewarded. of course i could post a bunch of hands from one tournament over time but im impatient. keep in mind that the $100 could be one of those good players not willing to do it for free =].

[ChoicestHops]

Where's the $0.00 option?

[durron597]

I think it should be a fraction of buyin. Like, 25% of the tourney's buyin.

[SCfuji]

this is an interesting idea.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
this is an interesting idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

In fact, I would definitely do that myself, PM me if interested /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[SCfuji]

you honestly would check over a $22 for $5?

[jon462]

[ QUOTE ]
you honestly would check over a $22 for $5?

[/ QUOTE ]

you arent going to get a whole lot of info from one hand history anyway, it isnt worth much more than 5 bucks imo. Now if yer talking 10+ HH's then 100 dollar+ range might be more reasonable, depending on who it is you are paying..

[Bigwig]

What constitutes a 'pro?'

I make over half my income playing poker.

You wanna pay me hourly?

[Irieguy]

It takes about 30 minutes to review a HH and write up a critique.

The fair price for 1 HH review with a critique would be 1/2 of whatever the pro earns per hour by playing.

Irieguy

[SCfuji]

this is guaranteed income and believe that should change the rate. of course since i would be the customer im biased towards cheaper possibilities but if i were the pro i think i would be able to make a nice little business out of this summary review by doing mass quantities of them and the less expensive the review is the easier it would be to get business.

[citanul]

while i'm sure you can find someone to look over a game or two for free, this statement below is pretty silly. to a pro, they play their hours they make their money, the concept of taking a cut in pay/hour to get a gauranteed rate (probably a big cut) just doesn't make much sense.

then again, 1800gambler made a post about this once i think. my main thinking on the subject is that if someone has some hourly rate for playing, that is their expected return for the next hour, plain and simple.

[ QUOTE ]
this is guaranteed income and believe that should change the rate.

[/ QUOTE ]

[microbet]

What buyin are you playing?

If I were you I wouldn't necessarily look towards the top buyin players. At each level there are players who have played a lot with very high ROIs. One of these players will probably be just as good for you and will probably be a lot cheaper than someone who is making $200/hr playing.

[trdi]

Not if he busted out on second hand with TT. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
Anyway. I wouldn't pay anything right now, because I can improve my play by myself, I'm a low buy-in player. When I move up and feel such a review could help me spot more mistakes, I might do such a think.

[pearljam]

I think it depends on the player, if curtains or raptor want to revew 10 of my tournament historys and fix some holes in my game I would have no problem giving them 50$ or so. However if it was citanul I would'nt be able to pay him anything, so really this is all player dependent.

[SCfuji]

just trying to barter =]

[johnnybeef]

In all honesty, having someone look at my hhs is by far the best move i have ever made. I have now had two people from this forum review a number of my hhs, and i have personally reviewed another member's hhs. All have been for some sort of financial gain, and all have been worth every penny.

[SCfuji]

im new to this forum so i started by reading posts that had the most views and responses. who are the lower buyin studs? 33s and lower.

[microbet]

I get people mixed up sometimes but...

Lorinda for sure.

I'm not sure about the rest. I get people mixed up. I think 45suited and IC5 have played a ton of $11s and have done really well. Maybe lastchance too? Someone posted a while back about 38 or 39% ROI over thousands, but I'm not sure who.

[Scuba Chuck]

I found OP's question to sound sincere and from someone who wants to take his game seriously. I congratulate you for considering having an expert help you out.

I think I might be able to crystalize what the message is that you are getting from the group think here. If you're just beginning, and you'd like some help with how you're playing, there's a contingent of players here who have a pretty good, but loose, grasp of the general strategy on how to beat the low buyins (without the push/fold Adanthar strategy) who can help you out. And frankly, this will probably work just fine.

An alternate approach would be to ask/pay someone to mentor you.

IMHO, if you're going to pay a pro for HH reviewing ( if you're a sort of beginner ), I think you're better off taking the mentor route.

By no means should you read my comments to mean that you should not have your HH's reviewed by a pro. As I said earlier, I think that means you have a real desire to further your game.

Good luck at the tables.
Scuba

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
I get people mixed up sometimes but...

Lorinda for sure.

I'm not sure about the rest. I get people mixed up. I think 45suited and IC5 have played a ton of $11s and have done really well. Maybe lastchance too? Someone posted a while back about 38 or 39% ROI over thousands, but I'm not sure who.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I'm pretty sure Lorinda is playing above those limits (or some other form of poker....given the MIA on the forum)...but, yes, Lorinda is probably the best low limit STT player ever (IMO of course).

Yugoslav

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

Well I'm pretty sure Lorinda is playing above those limits (or some other form of poker....given the MIA on the forum)...but, yes, Lorinda is probably the best low limit STT player ever (IMO of course).

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
you honestly would check over a $22 for $5?

[/ QUOTE ]

I consider myself good enough for $5 to be a fair price for my HH reviewing. If I was, say, Lorinda I would charge a higher percentage.

[Izverg04]

[ QUOTE ]
while i'm sure you can find someone to look over a game or two for free, this statement below is pretty silly. to a pro, they play their hours they make their money, the concept of taking a cut in pay/hour to get a gauranteed rate (probably a big cut) just doesn't make much sense.

then again, 1800gambler made a post about this once i think. my main thinking on the subject is that if someone has some hourly rate for playing, that is their expected return for the next hour, plain and simple.
[ QUOTE ]
this is guaranteed income and believe that should change the rate.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
With all respect, your refutation of the statement above is silly. I remember 1800Gambler's poll (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2397002) very well. 50% of respondents said they'd give up 10% or less of EV in exchanged for a guaranteed winrate. IMO, the results of that poll indicated that a lot of advanced poker players play below their optimal stakes or that they are dilettantes when it comes to risk taking in general. I lean towards the latter.

A poker player should be willing to exchange his winnings for a guranteed income of (EV-Variance/2R), where R describes his risk tolerance. For a blackjack counter who optimized the stakes that he plays for, Variance/EV=R, and so a blackjack counter should give 50% of EV in excange for a flat rate. For a poker player who optimized the stakes, Variance/EV=m*R, where m is usually somewhere between 0.4 and 0.8, so he should be willing to part with 20-40% of his winrate depending on how comfortable he is at a given level.

[Oluwafemi]

but i may consider paying to look at a pro's summary, provided it's a large enough sample and that he can provide thorough thought processes in his HHs.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
With all respect, your refutation of the statement above is silly. I remember 1800Gambler's poll (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2397002) very well. 50% of respondents said they'd give up 10% or less of EV in exchanged for a guaranteed winrate. IMO, the results of that poll indicated that a lot of advanced poker players play below their optimal stakes or that they are dilettantes when it comes to risk taking in general. I lean towards the latter.

A poker player should be willing to exchange his winnings for a guranteed income of (EV-Variance/2R), where R describes his risk tolerance. For a blackjack counter who optimized the stakes that he plays for, Variance/EV=R, and so a blackjack counter should give 50% of EV in excange for a flat rate. For a poker player who optimized the stakes, Variance/EV=m*R, where m is usually somewhere between 0.4 and 0.8, so he should be willing to part with 20-40% of his winrate depending on how comfortable he is at a given level.

[/ QUOTE ]

jesus christ, did you honestly just write that? your reasoning is that people should be willing to take a pay cut to reduce variance because there is an economic variable R called risk tolerance? the point in my original post is that in many instances, people who gamble should have very high risk tolerances while staying within their bankroll.

so if a player is playing within their bankroll and is in some way "properly" mindsetted to be a professional gambler, they should never accept money for work that is a subistitute for their gambling activity during hours which they would otherwise be participating in their gambling activity. the point in this paragraph is what i was trying, while sleepy, to get at in my other post.

i apologize for my tone in the first paragraph, but your "reasoning" involved:

a) showing up with random assed equations
b) showing up with a risk tolerance variable R and not considering what it's values should be for a professional gambler playing within his bankroll
c) showing up with a variable m which you didn't define except giving it a range
d) eh, i gots nothing more. but i really do think that my point is quite valid, and the idea of just showing up with some equations and not acutally showing anything with them is pretty nutso.

citanul

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
but i may consider paying to look at a pro's summary, provided it's a large enough sample and that he can provide thorough thought processes in his HHs.

[/ QUOTE ]

you do understand that in general, to do that, the pro would require you to pay a pretty heinous amount of money, right?

citanul

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but i may consider paying to look at a pro's summary, provided it's a large enough sample and that he can provide thorough thought processes in his HHs.

[/ QUOTE ]

you do understand that in general, to do that, the pro would require you to pay a pretty heinous amount of money, right?

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

ill give someone access to an email file with 500+ sng summaries for 2k. 4 bucks per is a BARGAIN!!! /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

[Mr_J]

"ill give someone access to an email file with 500+ sng summaries for 2k"

He said the pro would have to provide reasoning. 2k wouldn't be worth the time, even though the reasoning for each action would take up half a line.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
"ill give someone access to an email file with 500+ sng summaries for 2k"

He said the pro would have to provide reasoning. 2k wouldn't be worth the time, even though the reasoning for each action would take up half a line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Besides Raptor has had breakeven streaks of 500+. Who wants to read through a bunch of tournament summaries of bad beats? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but i may consider paying to look at a pro's summary, provided it's a large enough sample and that he can provide thorough thought processes in his HHs.

[/ QUOTE ]

you do understand that in general, to do that, the pro would require you to pay a pretty heinous amount of money, right?

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

i assume that a pro would also charge a heinous amount of money to look at your HHs too. my point is not based so on how much a pro would charge; it's based on which one i would get the most benefit from.

key words [ *[i]consider paying ].

*this is mostly based on whether i can afford his fee. considering that most pros would probably charge alot to be worth their time, more than what i can and am willing to pay, it's whatever. i'll learn on my own.

[Irieguy]

I'm with Citanul. My risk tolerance is 100%.

Ship it, holla.

Irieguy

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
I get people mixed up sometimes but...

Lorinda for sure.

I'm not sure about the rest. I get people mixed up. I think 45suited and IC5 have played a ton of $11s and have done really well. Maybe lastchance too? Someone posted a while back about 38 or 39% ROI over thousands, but I'm not sure who.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the caveat that I kind of suck at poker, I am currently looking over the HHs of a player struggling at the 11s. I would look over another one or two players' HHs for free.

I would never charge people for this since A) I'm not very good admittedly and B) Almost everything that I've learned has been either through trial and error or for free off this forum.

Personally, I would pay to belong to this forum. If I ever meet Curtains, Lorinda, NegativeEV, Adanthar, etc... I would buy them a round of drinks for how much they've helped me without even knowing it.

FWIW, I think that by simply staying out of trouble early (avoiding hands like AQo UTG+1 in level 1 that better players would know how to play properly), avoiding FPS, and good bubble play alone could make anyone a 20% ROI performer on the 11s. Lorinda once wrote that 40% was attainable on the 11s. At one time, I thought that she was wrong, but I firmly believe now that she is right. (Only problem is anyone close to this figure would move up.)

I also think that a good thing to do would be to swap HHs with someone at or near your level.

[citanul]

as i have stated in other threads previously, people would be surprised how little i would charge to look over a few hand histories.

however, there was some sort of thing going on for a 22-33 study grou, if i recall correctly, and while that doesn't necessarilly give you things from the vantage point of a 215s winner, it does give you a good framework for studying with people currently playing in the same games.

citanul

[Izverg04]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm with Citanul. My risk tolerance is 100%.

Ship it, holla.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

It might be because you like gambling. Personally I only like winning.

To citanul: sorry for not providing any explanations in my post but what I said is well grounded in conventional gambling theory. Consider it to be the last paragraph of an essay that hasn't been written yet.

[SCfuji]

i have close to 500 STTs under my belt at the lower buyins. i just want to make sure that im beating them for what they are worth. i read the gildwulf study group post and i think ill go venture into that realm if theyll have me. if not id appreciate anybody willing to personally mentor me by openly responding to any questions i have on aim as they come.

thanks

[trainslayer]

[ QUOTE ]
avoiding FPS ,

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen this b4, what does it mean? pleeze.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
avoiding FPS

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I've seen this b4, what does it mean? pleeze.

[/ QUOTE ]


Fancy Play Syndrome.

What I mean by that is that I just play basic ABC poker for the most part. Playing fundamentally sound SNG strategy will get the job done. Fancy plays aren't necessary at the lower levels IMO.

I voted for $100, then read these......
Basically what is $100? To me or a pro for that matter....
The $100 paid would have a positive effect on my game which i'd make a lot more back with, if Greg Raymer said to me, he'd look through my HHs for $100, how could you turn that down? I know he wouldn't, a. time, b. too nice to charge probably.....
But its obviously massive +EV in the long term

[buddybudrow]

$0. Just because someone is a pro, doesn't mean they are a good teacher.

[cain06]

By posting on these forums, you are having pros look at your hands all the time. Just post one hand at a time for a week and you'll get lots of pros analyzing your hands for free!!

[Quercus]

Back when I played a lot of 6max, I hired a known and respected HUSH 10/20 player coach me on some hands. He charged $300 for 200 hands.

I'd expect a solid 109+ player to charge the equivalent.