Representing 2

[Schneids]

$150/300 6-handed.

I raise 4c 4s UTG. If you hate it I don't care it's what I did lets move on pretend like it's the CO though me being UTG will become more relevent later in the hand.

Folded around to SB who 3-bets. He's a very solid, tight playing player who's a big winner. Today he happens to be running poorly. BB cold calls and he's the reason we're all in the game. I call.

Flop Kh 8d 5s. SB bets, BB folds, I call.

Turn Ac. SB bets, I raise, SB calls.

River Jc. SB checks, I bet.

[flawless_victory]

i know what youre thinking, and i cannot possibly be convinced that calling this flop is good. fold the flop and let him have it you psycho.

[astroglide]

are his LAYDOWNS the reason you're in the game?

[Klepton]

i think if he hated that Ace he would have folded to the turn raise...

but this could be like my 100-200 hand where villain wanted to see if you would bet the river and were not raising for free showdown

FWIW, i like it

[ike]

I don't understand. Do you think 99-QQ called the turn raise but will now fold?

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand. Do you think 99-QQ called the turn raise but will now fold?

[/ QUOTE ]pretty obvious he does.

[Xhiggy]

[ QUOTE ]
but this could be like my 100-200 hand where villain wanted to see if you would bet the river and were not raising for free showdown

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I think once you decide to play past the flop, you have a lot of fold equity in the turn raise (although I'm not sure of the overall EV in continuing past the flop). I think a river bet is a must, as he now knows you weren't raising to take a free showdown. I'm a little concerned SB might have a hand like A10 or AJ (I think AQ+ 3bets you on the turn), but there's more than enough of a chance of villain folding a middle pair or KQ, etc. here to justify the bet.

[A_C_Slater]

Do they perceive you to be a rock or the maniac that you are?

This is very important.

[elindauer]

Hi Schneids,

edit: total 180.

After some further thought, I realized that QQ and TT may well call the turn raise drawing to their 6 outs. Both of these hands will probably fold to your river bet. I think we should discount these some because these hands probably don't bet out on the turn, but still, you have a pretty good overlay on a river bluff. Fire.

As for your decision to play this hand at all, and to take this shot, obviously, it's not the play you make by default. The thing that distinguishes a TAG from a LAG though is simply the FREQUENCY of plays like this. If you pick your spots, you can use your tight image to get away with this stuff sometimes.

Good luck.
Eric

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand. Do you think 99-QQ called the turn raise but will now fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Ike,

I thought the same thing, and while 99 is clearly out, QQ and TT both have a gutshot + what look like reasonably clean set outs. They probably call the turn and fold the river.

Good luck.
Eric

[elindauer]

By the way Schneids, the fact that you have to fire three bullets to knock out QQ and TT should dissuade you from raising the turn. You can accomplish basically the same bluff by simply calling the turn and betting the river if he checks to you. It looks like you must hold an A or K to have played your hand this way. The result is:

a) he bets the river. he has represented a big hand all the way, you fold and save 2 BB.

b) he checks the river. You bet and take it down.


You could never get away with this against your typical loose party doofus, but then, you're ability to make him fold a better hand is the reason you played this after the flop.

my 2 cents.
Eric

[gonores]

QQ and TT don't have gutshots on the turn.

[gonores]

I'm not sure what a 3-betting SB will fold on this river. On the surface, I don't like it, but like others have said...your image is the key to your river play.

[elindauer]

Quite right, I obviously talked myself into the board being AKJ on the turn. In the actual hand then, I agree that betting the river looks like waste of money.

Thanks,
Eric

[Chris Daddy Cool]

the fact that he called your turn raise when the Ace didn't bring in any redraw is not a good sign. he has to be a laydown machine (i.e. me /images/graemlins/smirk.gif) to make this work. there are several players out there that will call the turn raise expecting you to NOT bet the river anticipating the free showdown play and fold if you bet the river. but this has to be very player specific otherwise you're just spewing chips.

[daryn]

i don't like the giving away of $300 on river

[NYplayer]

i don't think you're going to get a better hand to fold here 1 in 10 times. what did he call the turn with that he won't pay off the river that beats you. i think this is a case of only worse hands folding. but what do i know, i'm just weak tight /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[mperich]

As others have said, I dont think he folds the river if he calls the turn (enough to be profitable, or remotely profitable IMO). I don't see what hands he thinks you would be free showdowning that he beats on this turn, so I think if he thought you were going for a free showdown here, he folds the turn.

-Mike

[TiltsMcFabulous]

This is exactly the kind of hand I do not understand about high stakes play. By all accounts the OP is a fantastic player ... how can he play a hand this way? I mean that with utmost respect, btw. I couldn't imagine myself ever raising 44 from UTG and bluffing into someone who 3bet me out of position (and then didn't fold to the scare card on the turn). Totally baffling.

~ Tilts

[oreogod]

Well Schneids kind of operates on a whole different plane of poker playing. Ive heard when he plays, he plays no less than 25 tables at once...and he can do it on one screen

[SA125]

The board is Kh 8d 5s Ac Jc. What good player 3 bets your UTG raise from the SB pf when it's folded to him 6 handed, leads the flop and turn, calls your turn raise and folds this river? QQ-99 should have folded to the turn raise if he wasn't calling the river. These limits are out of my league, but it looks like an extreme case of FPS.

[Paluka]

Even if this worked the play can't be worth it. Given his 3 betting range, it isn't going to be worth the number of bets you have to invest in the long run.
Last time someone did this to me I 3 bet them on the turn and they still called and rivered their set.

[ike]

[ QUOTE ]

Well Schneids kind of operates on a whole different plane of poker playing. Ive heard when he plays, he plays no less than 25 tables at once...and he can do it on one screen

[/ QUOTE ]

I heard he had a computer implanted in his brain and he actually just lies in one of those pods from the matrix.

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Well Schneids kind of operates on a whole different plane of poker playing. Ive heard when he plays, he plays no less than 25 tables at once...and he can do it on one screen

[/ QUOTE ]

I heard he had a computer implanted in his brain and he actually just lies in one of those pods from the matrix.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also heard he can bang two girls at the same time while playing 25 tables (you can do this with a wireless mouse*).

*=good investment

I check the river AK on board vs sb 3 bet. Thats if i call the flop which I dont. And if i raise the turn which i dont. The flop seems like ether a raise or fold and not a call. Im retarded so what do i know tho

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
This is exactly the kind of hand I do not understand about high stakes play. By all accounts the OP is a fantastic player ... how can he play a hand this way? I mean that with utmost respect, btw. I couldn't imagine myself ever raising 44 from UTG and bluffing into someone who 3bet me out of position (and then didn't fold to the scare card on the turn). Totally baffling.

~ Tilts

[/ QUOTE ]

got nothin but respect for schneider, but he's not "fantastic"

good, definately.

great, yes.

fantastic, no.

DISCLAIMER: schneids is > me and toasted me HU w/ some luck and some great play...END DISCLAIMER

but im w/ NYplayer here. and i have been edging that way for a while now.

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if this worked the play can't be worth it. Given his 3 betting range, it isn't going to be worth the number of bets you have to invest in the long run.
Last time someone did this to me I 3 bet them on the turn and they still called and rivered their set.

[/ QUOTE ]

running good i see... /images/graemlins/frown.gif

-Barron