Top two, tons of action

[brettbrettr]

I haven't posted a hand in a while solely because I can't get the converter to work and I'm a lazy ass bitch.

How are you guys playing this turn? I didn't think LP was unreasonable....



PartyPoker - $5/$10 Texas - 10 players

SB is 34/12/0.8 (41)
BB is 26/9/4.0 (35)
LP1 is 25/11/1.1 (63)
CO is 12/5/3.8 (65)

Hero is UTG with Ts Js

PreFlop
CO posts BB
Hero Calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, LP1 Calls, CO checks, Button folds
SB Calls, BB checks

(5 players) FLOP: Td 8h Jd ( Pot Size: 2.5 BB )
SB BETS, BB RAISES, Hero RAISES, LP1 RAISES, CO folds
SB Calls, BB folds, Hero Calls

(3 players) TURN: 9s ( Pot Size: 9.5 BB )
SB checks, Hero ????

[callmedonnie]

I am way too loose to fold this. If there isn't a set or straight out there already, I'll be damned.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I am way too loose to fold this. If there isn't a set or straight out there already, I'll be damned.

[/ QUOTE ]

I rarely fold to a check. And by rarely I mean, yes, I've done it.

[baronzeus]

What? You bet, call if raised, and try to hit your boat.

[Net Warrior]

[ QUOTE ]
If there isn't a set or straight out there already, I'll be damned.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is huge and you've got 4 outs. Try to get to the river as cheaply as possible.

[bigalt]

i don't think a bet accomplishes anything here.

i'd like to check/call 1 bet.

[Paxosmotic]

[ QUOTE ]
What? You bet, call if raised, and try to hit your boat.

[/ QUOTE ]
Checking to MP1 sets up a beautiful check-raise for value if we hit our boat on the river. Let MP1 keep opening, when he opens on the river, everyone calls for one more bet, then we close the action with a raise. Wins us the most, loses us the least. Profit++.

[baronzeus]

You're just assuming LP1 has a queen? If he has something like 88 or JT you want him to fold his hand on the river UI. And if the board pairs, (your J or your T) he will likely raise you on the river with a lower boat, or possibly a flush, or possibly a straight. Then you can 3bet.

Edit: let's put LP on a hand range here. It's not QQ, as about 95% of players raise here. It could be something like Q9s, and we'll soon find out if it is--he isn't capping with a lone Q on the flop. Other than that, it's either JJ, JT, J8, T8, 88...or 2 diamonds (yes, a cap here would be +EV with 2 diamonds). We are ahead of most of these hands, and we have some river fold equity against those that don't boat up that are already beating us.

[hicherbie]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't think a bet accomplishes anything here.

i'd like to check/call 1 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think bet/calling a raise is spew.

[Nick C]

This kind of bet, raise, 3-bet, cap flop sequence involving four different players is pretty rare, and I'm not really sure how to interpret it when it happens.

My guess is that LP has a hand that's as good as or better than yours, though a hand like 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif is also possible, as is something like T9/J9. If he's got JT/97, then he may be bothered by the turn card as much as you are, but I suspect you're going to have to show down to win (or tie), and the chances that you're behind here seem pretty high to me. (I'm worried about, for instance, hands like Q9/88/99, and a hand like A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif doesn't seem so likely, given the lack of a preflop raise.)

Anyway, I think I'd check and call. If LP bet and SB checkraised, I'd grudgingly fold.

[baronzeus]

The one thing I failed to realize was the possibility of SB check raising here. [censored]. OK, check/call is probably better, although I don't think it's an easy decision.

[J. Sawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If there isn't a set or straight out there already, I'll be damned.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is huge and you've got 4 outs. Try to get to the river as cheaply as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

you need to see the river, then there UI i fold to more than 1 bet.

[callmedonnie]

i didn't say fold to a check. i said you're going to lose this pot.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, check/call is probably better, although I don't think it's an easy decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

No [censored], why do you think I posted it?

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
you need to see the river, then there UI i fold to more than 1 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my plan too.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OK, check/call is probably better, although I don't think it's an easy decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

No [censored], why do you think I posted it?

[/ QUOTE ]


WTF kind of arrogant bitch ass post was this. I was saying it's close between check/call and bet with only 1 person to act.

Don't be a jackass if you want advice. The post wasn't even in response to you, it was in response to Nick C. I don't care that you posted the hand, I want to learn this hand for myself.

I hate people like you.

[brettbrettr]

Relax, I was drunk and [censored] around...Don't be so sensistive.

[chief444]

Brett,

I'd check/call one bet and check/fold for two. They can't all have diamonds and I find it hard to believe with that flop action you're good here very often. I think if you bet you're getting raised or check/raised or both a lot here and I'd prefer to just get out of this one now unless I can see the river for one bet.

[brettbrettr]

Yeah, this was my thought. I'd have called one bet on the river too, I think. This awful?

[chief444]

Ummm, I guess it depends on if you think a reasonable LP would value bet worse than JT. Probably not an awful call. Probably not even an awful overcall considering anyone with a Q wouldn't check/call the turn and river. But if LP bets both you're likely beat. I'm not sure if likely is likely enough to fold though.

Did you consider just calling the flop BTW intending to raise a blank turn? I think that would have been my line.

[brettbrettr]

No, I saw an opporutnity to maybe get this HU. Make LP call 3 cold or cap, make sb call two back....

[chief444]

Yeah, I can see that. But there are only 5.5 SB's in the pot though when you 3-bet which is why I was thinking call. Just a thought.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I can see that. But there are only 5.5 SB's in the pot though when you 3-bet which is why I was thinking call. Just a thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think its a bad thought....I'll keep it in mind. With a hand like this I normally try to knock out players whenever I can...

For anyone who's interested, I checked the turn planning to fill up on the river. I didn't plan on LP checking behind but the plan worked perfectly /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[chief444]

So what was the river and did you value bet?

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
So what was the river and did you value bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

The river was a T and, yes, I bet it.