Caught between two maniacs

[cmwck]

UTG and MP3 have been trash talking for the past 20 minutes. Everytime MP3 loses a pot, UTG berates him in the chat window.

As a result MP3 is playing > 90% of his hands and raising about 25%. UTG is at 63/18.


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

For this hand I ignored MP3's 3-bet, as he could easily be steaming b/c of UTG and doing it with nothing .

Flop: (13.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.

Is it more important to not give a free card to the villains than to give myself a free card?

Turn: (6.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero...?

Pretty lost on the turn. I figure my two options are to fold or assume MP3 is taking a random shot at the pot as he has done a few times before and raise to get a free showdown (plus to shut out UTG).

[Harv72b]

I raise the turn with the understanding that those are the last chips I'm putting into the pot unless the river improves me.

I like checking behind on the flop because it sounds like either of these players are capable of a bluff/semibluff checkraise, and it's very possible that MP3 would 3-bet an UTG checkraise with a worse hand than your AQ. So just cut out the middle man and don't give either an opportunity to force you out of the hand so easily.

[cmwck]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise the turn with the understanding that those are the last chips I'm putting into the pot unless the river improves me.


[/ QUOTE ]

I raised the turn, but now UTG check 3-bets!. MP folds, it's one bet back to me and I'm getting about 13:1. I doubt he would have checked a big pocket pair twice, so I put him on either a slowplayed jack, or a full house. I still have a gutshot, and even discounting it to 3 outs I still have odds to call.

Do you call the 3-bet and fold the river UI, or fold to the 3-bet right there?

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
I raised the turn, but now UTG check 3-bets!. MP folds, it's one bet back to me and I'm getting about 13:1. I doubt he would have checked a big pocket pair twice, so I put him on either a slowplayed jack, or a full house. I still have a gutshot, and even discounting it to 3 outs I still have odds to call.

Do you call the 3-bet and fold the river UI, or fold to the 3-bet right there?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bleh. Worst scenario possible. If you call the turn check/3-bet then you're almost committed to calling one more on the river (you have the odds, albeit thin ones, to continue with a gutshot on the turn, and when it gets to the river you have to figure that this opponent is capable of bluffing with a worse hand than AQ at least 1 in 14 times).

Can I change my mind and fold to the initial turn bet now? /images/graemlins/grin.gif I guess the obvious answer is to call the 3-bet and spike your K on the turn, but I'm stumped if you aren't one of those players who can catch a river card at will.

[jgorham]

If these players are as reckless as you say they are, it would be a rather large mistake to raise the turn for a free showdown. Far too often you will get 3bet or stop n go'd. Getting 3bet on the turn is bad, cause you have to call with your straight outs. So just call the turn, and if it is one bet back to you call again.

[callmedonnie]

Ouch. All I know is this table sounds like heaven, your seat sounds like hell.

[TomBrooks]

Call. I think you got at least 7 good outs, taking away the spades. And they might be OK anyway.