AA out of position

[tommo]

villain was 28/8 and went to the showdown only about 18% of the time, but he has an aggression number of 4 on the flop. My thoughts are included. Let me add, I hate playing out of position.

Party Poker (6 max, 5 handed)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font> villain bets $3 hero raises to $9 villain calls.

<font color="green"> OK, so he's got a pretty good hand. Thinking AK KQ AQ QQ JJ 1010 99</font>

Flop: 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

<font color="green">I think that he "probably" has AK KQ, so I figure that if I put a half sized bet in he'll probably raise with AK and maybe even KQ. He might even raise QQ or JJ because of his high aggro numbers. </font>

Hero bets $8 Villain raises to $25

<font color="green"> good, he raised me to about the size of the old pot (before I put in my bet) putting him pretty solidly on AK (I realize two of the aces are gone) or KQ now. So I figure he might not call a 3 bet and think a stopngo is the way to do it.</font>

Hero calls

Turn: 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

<font color="green"> This is a blank, I figure I just want to get him all in. I put another half pot sized bet in (if he calls he then I'll push him on the river unless a king comes).</font>

Hero bets $30 Villain raises all in to $60 Hero calls

Alright. So after thinking about this hand I figure that I'm overvaluing AA. Especially against a guy with %18 seeing the showdown. I see a couple other ways to play it.

1. Bet the pot on the flop
problems
-if he raises I pretty much have to call AK or KQ are too likely as well as a bluff
-if he calls, check/folding on the turn is too weak but check calling may get me a cheaper showdown.


Basically I think that with these stack sizes I'm getting it all in with AA. Maybe I'm too aggressive. Does anybody play it differently?

[djoyce003]

well we don't know stack sizes. You lost to KK here. Remember, AA is just one pair. After that second raise, I'd be pretty worried. I don't think a villain with those stats is raising you twice without a hand that beats AA...you basically announced what your hand was preflop and he doesn't appear to be worried. I think I go into check call mode here and hope to show down cheap, a fold might even be worth considering here.

[tommo]

you don't think AK is a possibility? I think check/call or check/fold is a pretty weak way to play it. Specifically how would you have played the flop?

[jonoo]

i think KK is unlikely here. villian would prob 3 bet PF. but TT and AK are definately possibllitys. I would check/call on the turn or reraise on the flop. but thats a tough spot

[djoyce003]

I don't think AK is a possibility after the turn raise. If i was opponent and raised the flop, and then was led into again, i'm calling, no way am I raising again. I'm hoping to show down cheaply at that point. I raise with KK or another set hoping that you will raise me with your AK or your AA here and let me clobber you. On the flop, I probably reraise the flop to see where i'm at. If he pushes, I fold.

to the other poster, I don't think KK is that unlikely. He raised preflop and got a good sized reraise from a blind. Typically that means at a minimum jj, and QQ AA KK are more likely. If I had KK and was villain i'd probably play the hand in a similar manner, and hope that no ace fell on the flop. Once the king falls, he's in high cotton. I don't like re-reraising with AA or KK because it basically lets your opponent know EXACTLY what you have, this way there is a little mystery.

[mbraudel]

Let me know if this makes sense. It's my first time thinking it through out loud--

I found myself wondering stack sizes as I read this. It wasn't until Villain went all in for $60 that I was able to puzzle them out.

Preflop, I would have made the Villain's original raise with a pretty wide range of hands.

But, given that you reraised me and I (as the Villain) chose to call, it's 99% that I have a PP. The reason I started wondering about stack sizes as I read the preflop action, was that I wanted to know whether you had a big enough stack to make it worthwhile for Villain to play for a set.

If I were Villain, I wouldn't call your reraise with AK AQ KQ etc. Because even if I caught a pair with one of those hands, your reraise makes it highly likely that I would either lose a big pot, or win a small pot.

(And, since you raised preflop, you're probably going to make it too expensive for me to chase a straight or flush post-flop. In this situation, I dump connectors and suited cards.)

So, if I call your reraise, that means I have a PP.

On the flop, your half-pot bet could suck Villain into semi-bluffing over the top if the two of you had a deep stacks. But when I see the stack sizes later on the post, that idea no longer makes sense. Because even if he make his hand on a later street, stacks aren't deep enough for him to get paid off in proportion to the risk he took to get to that later street and make his hand.

So, when he raises on the flop, he's not bluffing or semi-bluffing. He's already made his hand.

The all-in means he's got the goods. You've shown enough strength in this hand for him to know that he needs more that TPTK to beat you in a showdown, and his bet says he's willing to take on that challenge.

My vote is, he had KK. (Though TT is entirely consistent with his play.) He called your reraise, verified that there was no Ace on the flop, and then tried to keep a straight face while you kept putting your cash into the pot.

Does my description make sense, looking at it from the other guy's point of view?

[NYCNative]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop, I would have made the Villain's original raise with a pretty wide range of hands.

But, given that you reraised me and I (as the Villain) chose to call, it's 99% that I have a PP.

[/ QUOTE ]I just lost a pot when my AK was reraised by KJ and villain spiked a Jack. I have a thread going right now in here where I had my reraise called by four people, two of which were there at showdown - one with T9s and the other with pocket 4s. At smaller levels, people do strage things.

Also, people with the big PPs tend to go over the top once they already showed aggression by raising in the first place. (Some at this level like to play big hands passively to try and trap but they doin't raise to begin with.)

Mind you, this doesn't mean that hero is ahead but I can certainly see hero ahead at least as often as he is behind.