slickpoppa
07-22-2005, 02:16 PM
BossJJ has done a great job of describing some of the problems with Chirstianity, but the evidence that he has offered in support of Judaism is extremely weak. His main talking point seems to be that god revealed himself to a nation of several million people. If we could talk to those millions of people who supposedly witnessed god, then that would indeed be compelling. But the only actual evidence that those millions of Jews witnessed god is the account of one book. We do not have any separate accounts that confirm the claims of the Torah. In the end, all we have is a book claiming that several millions people witnessed something, which is much different than actually having the accounts of several million people. So in the end, the "evidence" for Judaism is as scant as the evidence for Christianity. Instead of having to believe the claims of one man (Jesus) we have to believe the claims of one book which could have been written by one person.
One of the links that BossJJ posted argued this:
[ QUOTE ]
How can you explain a group of people who claim to be descendants of millions of people experiencing the splitting of the sea, the manna and the Revelation at Sinai? How did the first generation start believing it? A charismatic leader? A slowly evolving story? Mass hypnosis?
[/ QUOTE ]
How does any false religious belief begin? How were Jesus disciples motivated to spread his message at the risk of death? People are easily deluded, and this seemed to be especially true hundreds and thousands of years ago. I have no reason for believing that the accounts of Jewish miracles were not just made up. Conveniently, none of the great miracles that occurred in the Hebrew Testament have been repeated in the recent past. Furthermore, the Hebrew Testament describes many events that are just completely ridiculous. What is the Jewish position on the creation story, is that supposed to be read literally? What about the accounts of people like Methusela who supposedly lived until they were 700? And what about Noah's ark? And if those stories are just allegorical, then how do we know that the same is not true about the revelation at Sinai? If god intended the Torah to be the perfect expression of his will, then why are there so many stories in it that are completely disproven by modern science?
And as BossJJ himself said:
[ QUOTE ]
If you believe in God, it’s logical to believe that He would communicate with mankind to let us know what He wants, and that He wouldn’t keep changing His mind.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, and that is one of the main reasons that I don't believe in god because he has done such a shitty job of communicating with mankind. If god thought it was so important for us to follow his laws, then why wouldn't he repeat some of those miracles from the Torah every now and again to make it easier for people like me to believe?
As I see it, Judaism is the same as every other religion. It is based on great miracles that conveniently only happened several thousand years ago and are described by an uncorroborated book.
One of the links that BossJJ posted argued this:
[ QUOTE ]
How can you explain a group of people who claim to be descendants of millions of people experiencing the splitting of the sea, the manna and the Revelation at Sinai? How did the first generation start believing it? A charismatic leader? A slowly evolving story? Mass hypnosis?
[/ QUOTE ]
How does any false religious belief begin? How were Jesus disciples motivated to spread his message at the risk of death? People are easily deluded, and this seemed to be especially true hundreds and thousands of years ago. I have no reason for believing that the accounts of Jewish miracles were not just made up. Conveniently, none of the great miracles that occurred in the Hebrew Testament have been repeated in the recent past. Furthermore, the Hebrew Testament describes many events that are just completely ridiculous. What is the Jewish position on the creation story, is that supposed to be read literally? What about the accounts of people like Methusela who supposedly lived until they were 700? And what about Noah's ark? And if those stories are just allegorical, then how do we know that the same is not true about the revelation at Sinai? If god intended the Torah to be the perfect expression of his will, then why are there so many stories in it that are completely disproven by modern science?
And as BossJJ himself said:
[ QUOTE ]
If you believe in God, it’s logical to believe that He would communicate with mankind to let us know what He wants, and that He wouldn’t keep changing His mind.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, and that is one of the main reasons that I don't believe in god because he has done such a shitty job of communicating with mankind. If god thought it was so important for us to follow his laws, then why wouldn't he repeat some of those miracles from the Torah every now and again to make it easier for people like me to believe?
As I see it, Judaism is the same as every other religion. It is based on great miracles that conveniently only happened several thousand years ago and are described by an uncorroborated book.