JJ overpair turn decision

[jman220]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO ($312.75)
Button ($152.35)
SB ($54.25)
Hero ($204.35)
UTG ($96)
MP :#A500AF(Villain)/ ($201)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP :#A500AF(Villain)/ raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $16</font>, MP :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls $10, Button folds.

Flop: ($39) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $30</font>, Villain calls $30.

Turn: ($99) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero...

Do I pot it, which basically stack commits me if I go all in? Do I bet smaller and laydown to a big reraise? Check/raise? I lean towards the pot sized bet but I'm not sure now. I can't put villain on a hand just flat calling 30 on the flop, he's either slowplaying a monster, or some kind of draw like 9/J? Could he really be playing A/10 this way? Also, villain is a little donky, but hasn't gotten too out of line yet, not enough hands for any worthwhile stats.

[Cased Heel]

I don't understand the PF raise...

There's now $31 in the pot and it's only $10 more to each of your two opponents? You got lucky that at least one of them folded that.

I call here and look for a set on the flop - and push.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand the PF raise...

There's now $31 in the pot and it's only $10 more to each of your two opponents? You got lucky that at least one of them folded that.

I call here and look for a set on the flop - and push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I realized that I didn't raise enough pf afterwards. On 6-max nl, I usually play 10/10 and lower for set value, but push JJ and higher, although I guess in my position that may not have been so wise.

[amoeba]

check fold.

every pocket pair from 55 to AA with the exception of 66 and 99 has you beat.

I doubt this guy is on missed overs.

[Cased Heel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand the PF raise...

There's now $31 in the pot and it's only $10 more to each of your two opponents? You got lucky that at least one of them folded that.

I call here and look for a set on the flop - and push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I realized that I didn't raise enough pf afterwards. On 6-max nl, I usually play 10/10 and lower for set value, but push JJ and higher, although I guess in my position that may not have been so wise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, but it's hard to push here PF with just JJ. One of these two jokers may have QQ or better, so I think a call here for set-value is best. You definitely don't want to raise to build the pot (which, ultimately, is what you did).

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP :#A500AF(Villain)/ raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $16</font>, MP :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls $10, Button folds.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to make this reraise out of position (which I don't like without background reads/information, but that's your call), make it big enough so that you could potentially either A) make someone fold or B) gain some information.

(As it is, the button totally donked this up, so you did make someone fold -- but that's only because you managed to find a player that would call a raise preflop, and then fold to a reraise getting 4-1 on the button. Yikes.)

The point though is that the initial preflop raiser gained information about your hand, while you gained none about his. Of course he's going to call $10 more with someone else behind him in the pot... no matter what he has. You haven't narrowed down his hand range at all. You did, however, build a pot out of position with a one-pair type hand.

Personally, I can think of very few hands that a decent player will call your flop bet with that don't have you beat. He can't assume he can get a cheap showdown, because you reraised him preflop and then bet 3/4 pot on the flop... so even something donk-y like AT should raise or fold. Once he calls, I think you're pretty screwed. Of course, if you have reads, this is a different story.

Given that you played it the way you did, I shut down after he calls the flop, and only get to the river if he makes it VERY cheap. He won't, though -- notice how big the pot got after your PF reraise.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
On 6-max nl, I usually play 10/10 and lower for set value, but push JJ and higher, although I guess in my position that may not have been so wise.

[/ QUOTE ]

You meant 'push' as in raise.. not as in chip-spewing all-in preflop, i hope?

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On 6-max nl, I usually play 10/10 and lower for set value, but push JJ and higher, although I guess in my position that may not have been so wise.

[/ QUOTE ]

You meant 'push' as in raise.. not as in chip-spewing all-in preflop, i hope?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I mean push as in raise. I was screwed up for a few reasons, I normally play .5/1, but i was playing 1/2 on stars so i could more quickly clear the bonus, and i definitely screwed up the bet amount (multitabling and wasn't paying enough attention).