Can anyone here get away from this?

[arod15]

I find myslef Kicking myself over situations like this. Does anyone get away from this and whats the reasoning. This is perhaps my biggest flaw. I havent been making folds enough.
2-5NL Live
Hero Dealt A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifk /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Villian (560) Button raises to 20
Hero(780) Button re-raises to 50
Villian Calls (total pot 107)

Flop K /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif
Villian leads for 35$
Hero reraises to 100$
Villian without hesitation moves all in.
Hero shakes his head and of course donk calls the obvious 8 8. How bad is this call? Is this forgivable?

[AceHiStation]

Reads? and more importantly... stack sizes?

[arod15]

The number in ( ) is the stack sizes. My read unclear. Im suprised at his all in. I wonder if he is putting a move on. Or if its the obvious 88. Another range is AK or AQ im not completly sure but I leaning more toward 88 but im too much of a coward to fold.

[limon]

the call is horrendous. your hand was clearly defined, the flop hit you and your opponent could care less. in this situation even AA is an easy laydown. never let them know though.

[arod15]

[ QUOTE ]
the call is horrendous. your hand was clearly defined, the flop hit you and your opponent could care less. in this situation even AA is an easy laydown. never let them know though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed i went against my gut it was stupid. But even if they wont admit i know there are others who make the call. PUKE

[AceHiStation]

Kind of out of it today, missed the stack sizes. I make this laydown on a weekly basis... the problem is I make the call on a weekly basis too. I tend to find myself going against my gut with AK too often. I definately agree that your hand is defined and hes not even paying attention. He just wants to get all the money in the middle. But don't worry about it too much, curiousity gets the best of all of us once in a while.

[arod15]

I think that if i added all the money ive lost on calls like this it be more than 2K. Thats disgustion. Im posting this i think just so i can burn it in my head that it is ok from time to time to fold the best hand. Even if he had AQ more times than not im beat....

[technologic]

if there's any board to get away from TPTK, it's a rainbow flop with no straight draws. your hand belongs in the muck.

[arod15]

agreed it did an my chips belong to me but i didnt put my cards and the muck i decided to instead put my chips there. Note to self its ok to fold.....

[JeffM]

Raise more preflop, like 80-100. The whole point of raising AK pf is to get smaller and middle pairs to lay down b/c the only way you're getting their money in post flop is if they hit their set. If an A or K hit the flop they're gone. This is why you need to get the pot large PF with such hands or get them to fold. That being said, you need to fold this hand. We know this, but as a previous poster said, sometimes curiousity is too strong.

[sully4321]

i think your lead-out bet did exactly what you wanted it to do: it gave you information on the strength of his hand. he was representing a hand strength that was enough to re-raise you for all his chips. can you call an all-in with one pair? doubtful. should be an easy fold. i think you're up against a set 90% of the time and AK the other 10%.

[lapoker17]

Don't love the PF reraise, but with position, I guess it's OK - Sort of a preference thing.

After that, when he leads into you on a drawless flop, it should give you pause. I play this like way-ahead way-behind. I call the flop bet - reraising with one pair on a drawless board will only fold worse hands and get calls or raises from better ones. What do you put him on KQ? If that's the case, check call all or most of the way works best.

Creating a big pot on a board like this with one pair is asking for trouble.

As played this should be a very easy laydown.

[radioheadfan]

Why did you raise the flop? That's bad....

Call the flop. Get a better read on the turn. If you decide he has a set laydown on turn. If not, continue to call and take your chances with his 2-5 outer.

[arod15]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you raise the flop? That's bad....

Call the flop. Get a better read on the turn. If you decide he has a set laydown on turn. If not, continue to call and take your chances with his 2-5 outer.

[/ QUOTE ]

PUKE (im talking about myself)
Yes your right i played this wrong in all ways....

[AZK]

Hey, in the future could you describe this a little bit better in the title? Something along the lines of "I raised preflop and have 1 pair wtih AK, I know this, villain knows this, table knows this, villain moves all in, do I get away?"

Or something along those lines...

[arod15]

will do

[fimbulwinter]

good to see you posting again

[ QUOTE ]
the call is horrendous.

[/ QUOTE ]

but why the kid gloves? let us know how you really feel.

fim

[Leptyne]

When you re-raise pre-flop most players will check to the raiser. The good players know this is wrong and will lead with a strong hand. When led into on the flop warning bells should sound, red warning lights should be flashing in your mind. The reason Brunson prefers this hand over AA is because its so easy to get away from, or should be. Learn to recognize the difference between flops. A bad flop for you is a good flop for other holdings.

[Mark1808]

Great post, I know many times I would lose all my chips here. What if there is a flush draw and the villan is known to be aggressive? If he would always make this move on a flush draw against a tight player would a call be in order?

[Python49]

Call the flop. Get a better read on the turn.
By raising on the flop you got alot more information than by just calling and being faced with the same decision on t he turn. What have you learned on the turn when he just leads out again /images/graemlins/frown.gif I think the raise on the flop and his all in gave you the information you needed to get out the hand. If you just try to call it down you end up losing more money than by raising and then folding to his all in.

[cero_z]

Hi arod,

[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone here get away from this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think most people on here get away from this quickly. The default would be to fold; you'd need a special reason not to. You also played your hand in such a way up to this point that makes it hard to win much from an observant opponent, because you overrepresented your strength with the small re-raise pre-flop, and the flop raise. I'd be more likely to put you on AA if I was your opponent, and I'd always call 30 more to spike a set. If I'm in your spot when your opponent makes it 20, I'd re-raise at least the size of the pot-- I'd make it 70-90 to go. This makes him make a decision pre-flop, and most folks will just lay 88 down, since they'll think they need a set to win, and can't get the 8 to 1.

Similarly, you should just call on the flop. You have a classic way ahead/ way behind scenario there; there are no good draws, and an overcard can't beat you. The only way to make more money is to convince someone with a smaller K to keep the lead. If you're behind, you probably have no outs or 2 at most (vs. a set: 0; vs. AA: 2); if you're ahead, your opponent has 2 or 3 outs (smaller PP or smaller K, respectively). Just let him keep betting.

[Dr. StrangeloveX]

What's funny about this is how bad the villain played his hand (results aside). This is as draw free a board as you can get, and a lot of players will play perfectly against his all in, laying down aa and ak and calling with KK. I think he's letting those hands off way too easy.

[Reef]

There are absolutely no draws and I doubt he would do this with KQ (or any other hand you beat). Maybe if the board was like K /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif you can pay it off, but not K82 rainbow

[FatalError]

Call online fold live

[Fuchida]

Assuming your read on the villian isn't that he is prepared to put in a lot of money on a bluff vs someone who has shown strength pre and post flop (and you believe he thinks you would lay down AK in that situation), I would fold.

Of course, if I was tired I would assume he was bluffing and call. which is why I tend not to play when tired any more /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[surfinillini]

this is an easy fold when shown lots of strength here like the previous poster said. What looks like a dream flop for AK is actually a dream flop for 88 or 33.

Muck it and hope to get him when you got the goods; this is a bad spot to put your chips in all in.

[amoeba]

I hate your flop raise. but lets say you were doing it for info.

you got the info you wanted. play accordingly and fold.

[amoeba]

I think those should be reversed.